Ai all,
Just wanted a sounding board to see if anyone has walked the road and can possibly offer some advice or solace.
I started a science based PhD in early 2005 in industry. I started writing part-time when I began full time work in 2008 when my funding ran out. I have two supervisors: 1 uni and 1 industry based. My industry based supervisor (IBS) has been intimately inolved in the project the whole way along and has offered advice and encouragement where needed. I only had 4 meetings with my UBS throughout the 3 years full time work in did on the project. After the 3yrs full time I started working and did the occassional bits and pieces in the lab to finish off some things.
By my own admittance I have been super lazy about the PhD since 2008 and now that several of the crowd I started with have started to graduate, I'm feeling left out and that has given me the motivation to finally get the finger out.
Since the start of this year I've been working very hard in the evenings and wkends to get my 6 chapters finished and have managed to get 3 papers written (although one still at the draft/correction stage), 2/3 lit review and 1/2 of two other papers done. My last chapter is just bullet points of conclusions and is completed for the finished chapters.
I have had several in depth phone conversations with UBS and one very positive meeting in the last few months. He acknowledges that while there is some good work in my thesis, it is somewhat out of date and lacks the volume usually associated with phds in their dept. But he said this would not prevent me from getting one. I should mention that this UBS has blown hot and cold about my project since i began as it is not an area that they are interested in.
In the last few months I have been submitting my papers for publication. UBS says I must have a paper published before they will allow me to submit but sees no problem with getting the work published. Unfortunately, one paper (the primary study on which the rest of the work is based) has now been rejected twice. Both times the editors said the study was poorly designed/didn't make a big enough contribution. I fully expected the paper to be rejected as the journals have a high impact factor and the work is not up to their standards.
After the 1st rejection UBS said don't worry, happens to everyone, resubmit. After 2nd he said that journals might be onto something and maybe the primary study is not good enough/big enough. Now I have to meet with both supers as he has said my options are:
easy route (his words) take Masters
drop out
leave full time job (in a recession!!!) and go back to lab full time w/o stipend/dole any form of income- not an option.
try to figure simple saturday experiments that might improve thesis- unlikely as primary study the problem.

I'm bitter about this as I have seen lab mates submit thesis' they didn't write/ or do all the lab work on and yet still been ok for submission. Also- why was this not picked up

Sorry ran out of space on my rant!

Anyway- why was this not picked up on before?
I can't do another yr of full time work so my only option in part-time. Really p-d off as I'm so close to submission (Sept) and already have a MS so don't need/want another one.
On the other hand, the thoughts that I could just print what I have, bind it and submit for MS and it would be gone FOREVER are very tempting.
My girlf is doing one two and having issues, but there is no question that she will ot get it eventually.
Out of the crowd of 10 that started around the same time as me- I don't want to be the only one that doesn't get it. Feel humiliated that the work is not up to scratch. While some of this could be my own fault (could have put in more effort, repeated aspects more times, rather than repeat twice and say 'oh well it didn't work), it would seem that the main problem is the primary study which wasn't well thought out or big enough- not my fault!

Don't really know whats going ot happen until i have my meeting in a few weeks, but feel on the verge of tears with the stress of the past few years and especially this week. Hvae loads going on at home and don't need more hassle.
What would you do?
:-(

Hi, Sorry to hear about your ordeal! Can't you try to make some improvement to the articles, and try to send it to another journal? It seems like your UBS is basing his judgment (and the options he's offering you) on the say of one journal. Try another journal, if this is an option and do as much improvement on the article as you can. Also, is there someone else other than your UBS and IBS, a mentor, someone you met at a conference and showed enthusiasm about your work, etc. who knows enough about your field to take a look at your thesis and articles and give you their opinion? They might be able to see things more objectively and perhaps suggest some constructive do-able changes. It'd be a shame to give up all that work without trying different options which may in the end get you your PhD. Best of luck.

Hey thanks underverse,
UBS doesn't want to resubmit paper to any other journals at the mo as he thinks all eds will say the same thing. My IBS has said he may be able to improve article but i UBS has the final say as i cannot submit without him signing off. IBS thinks there is plnety for phd.. UBS doesnt. So it's v frustrating. I think UBS is a bit freaked out as he had a student go to viva recently where the extern expressed concern that the thesis was not up to scratch and this would be the first occasion that has happened in UBS' career. Just think he is erring on the side of caution so that it doesn't happen again. I'm not follish enough to pressure him into letting me submit if he doesn't think i'll get it! I don't think there is any point in going to viva unless its a formality (which it usually would be in our cases).
what would anyone else do? Take the MS and count your blessings?
I have no interest in going into research or academia but feel i have invested too much to not get a phd out of it.

OK so you admit that you haven't been as focussed as you might have been recently but you should not be in this situation. Don't you have annual reviews with an independent person who looks at what progress you have made and what supervisors say. It really shouldn't have got so far down the line before he raised his concerns but it does sound like he is basing his opinion on what the editors have said. I would think that you have gorunds for complaint about the quality of supervison (after all he must have know what your study size was / what your experiments were etc) but I guess that is a tricky route to go down. Maybe you could contact NUS for advice or go and see someone else in the dpartment or another contact. I'm not convinced that people in industry are always able to judge what is or is not enough for a Phd.

I'm really sorry to hear about your ordeal. If I were you I would try my best to get a PhD out of it, as like you said you already invested years in it. I know you said your UBS doesn't want to submit to another journal, but you also said the journals you submitted to have high IF - would submitting to lower IF journals be an option?

Good luck!