So I dropped out of a CDT a few years back and am due to restart my PhD next month. I'm really questioning whether it's right for me though. I don't particularly enjoy the job I'm in now, it's a secure job and has a reasonable level of stability but I'm questioning my career trajectory and I'm not overly enjoying it. I feel the PhD is in an interesting subject but it's a topic I had no experience in as an undergrad and I'm really worried about how difficult it's going to be to pick it up. I've tried to read up on it, read papers etc and I'm really struggling to get my head around it. I don't want to be an academic but a PhD in my field can be very helpful. I feel so torn. I obviously wasn't good enough last time and I'm scared I won't be good enough this time either. I'm also worried about the (quite substantial) drop in income and the obviously increased workload of a PhD vs working. I think I'd always wonder what if, if I didn't go for it. But that doesn't necessarily mean that this project is the right fit for me. I think it's very much a case of now or never too - if I leave it much longer it'll be even harder to leave my job and I already feel like I'm getting too old. My partner and I would love to start a family in the next few years, although this is an issue even if I start the PhD next month or next year and we've already discussed potentially trying towards the latter part of the PhD. I really don't know what to do or what's best for me.

A PhD isn't more work than a normal full time job and shouldn't think of it in this way, otherwise you will burn out early.

You can pick stuff up as you go along, but it is definitively more of a challenge. You may find you know lots about your subject but have forgotten the basics (I did). You might find it beneficial to attend undergrad lecture courses or reread text books (I wish I did).

You can pick up more money by working in the department if available (I got an extra £4k max this way).

Only you can decide what's right for you, but since you're back in the ring again, that probably means you will regret it if you don't go for this PhD.

I've bought a textbook and read a few chapters and am still really struggling with the concept :( thing is, the bits I'm struggling with they didn't even mention or ask about at my interview. So maybe I'm worrying about nothing? But if I get into this second PhD and struggle and end up quitting them I'm back to square one and where i was a few years ago although then I'll have more gaps in my CV so I'm probably in a worse situation.

It's a difficult one. There's been things I struggled to understand at the start of my PhD but I was fine with it at the end after having spent a lot of time reading and writing about it. Sometimes it just needs time to sink in.

In my job now I feel like I know next to nothing compared to other academics (well they do have 20-30 years on me right? That's what I keep telling myself anyway), so I've decided from now until Christmas to throw myself wholeheartedly into my lecture content to get a really deep understanding of the topics I'm teaching, which I already should know to be honest (or should I, since I last learnt it back in 2006??). Anyway, the point is, you are capable of learning it, otherwise you wouldn't have got this far, so with a bit of dedication you can do it.

If you need to ask specific questions, maybe you can find forum based on your topic area and ask questions there, I do that sometimes.

Hi, CharlieC,

You have a lot of important points in your first post. I'll answer as best I can.

On your current job, you mentioned that the job is not enjoyable and has unclear career trajectory, but it is secure. You don't want to be an academic but a PhD in your field can be very helpful
- You have clearly outgrown your job. You could always look for another with more potential for growth. Could you ask your employer to sponsor your PhD, so you have a guaranteed job to return to?

Your PhD is interesting but you are struggling as you have no prior experience and you worry about fit and income reduction.
- No one knows for sure if their PhD is right for them until they start. You can learn, even if you have no prior experience. The important thing is whether you like the topic enough to want to try it and live a little poorly. Only you can answer this.

You want to start a family but worry about your PhD.
-You can always delay your PhD. My friend did hers at 50. It can be done. Having a child during phd can cause additional stress, on top of an already stressful PhD.

I wish you the best in your decision. Good luck!

Thank you both for your comments.

I really do think it's a now or never situation re the PhD. I only have one university within commutable distance from me and if I pull out now I've probably burnt my bridges there. Although, who knows where we'll be living in 10/15 years time. But apart from that I do think the more I work in industry the less I'm going to want to go back and do the PhD purely based on how much we'd be losing out financially. Sadly my current company would not sponsor my PhD, as long as one has a masters they don't care too much about PhD and sadly my current role isn't particularly highly regarded, it's more just seen as a necessity.

For us delaying a family isn't an option. I'm in my late twenties and my partner is in his mid thirties. Delaying it for another 4 years is not something we'd like to do. So I do think it's a case of do the PhD and make it work with a child (if we were lucky enough to conceive that is) or don't do the PhD.

TreeofLife i definitely don't think you should be able to remember something from 2006! I will look out for a relevant forum.

To be honest it sounds like you are considering the PhD for all the wrong reasons. I would say you need to be absolutely certain you want a PhD and you need to have very little doubt that you are good enough before you start. There are many examples of PhD students being broken by the process and you dont want to become one of them.
A PhD will be the toughest intellectual thing most people will do in their lives so dont expect anything other than 4 years of feeling completely out of your depth. This is normal.

Some other points.
1) Stop trying to plan the minutiae your life and start living it. Have kids when you want to have kids and just deal with the consequences when they occur. Plans almost never work out the way you thought.

2) There is no such thing as being too old for a PhD. I have no idea where people keep getting that idea from.

What would you class as a good reason to get a PhD? If not because the topic is interesting, to further ones career and / or to do something that's intellectually challenging / stimulating?

Re your other points
1) I'm not. More considering the impact having a PhD will have on our decision to start a family, something all adults should consider prior to starting one.

2) being too old or not is personal opinion. The vast majority of PhD students are in their early to mid twenties and with a general consensus the PhD becomes your everything (or perhaps that was just the case at the place I did my CDT year). As one gets older one is more likely to be earning a higher salary and become accustomed to a certain lifestyle, thus making it harder to walk away from to go back to earning the meagre PhD stipend. Furthermore as one gets older a PhD becomes less and less useful. With say 10 working years left ahead of you it's less useful than for someone who has say 40 working years left. Just my two pence worth though...

I'll deal with your second point first because in the 21st century it is very frustrating to still have people perpetuating this ageist nonsense.

Being "too old" absolutely is a personal choice. It's one thing to suggest that a 40 year old is too old to become a gold medallist at swimming but that is absolutely and categorically not true of someone who wants to become a scientist. It's ridiculous to suggest that you are too old for this at 40 and you are speaking to someone who has done it at 48. I would be more than happy to go head to head for a job as a scientist against anyone half my age. I did it to secure a highly competitive 12 month industrial research placement 5 years ago and if I ever needed to become employed again I would be very confident of beating off the competition again. You may be right about the vast majority of PhD candidates being in their mid-twenties but I fail to see your point. They will have almost no work or real life experience outside academia. How attractive do you think that is to an industrial company who needs someone to hit the ground running on day one? I come with a PhD AND almost 20 years of industrial experience. You had better be awesome if you think come up against me for the same job lol :-D

In my many years of experience, most industrial employers are not interested in how many years you have left. They are interested in your capability, your willingness to fit in and your salary expectations. Most employees don't stick around for more than a few years anyway. Of course I can only speak about the UK here. Other countries may have more destructive attitudes towards age amongst their population.

On your first point about having kids, you will either be in a job or in a PhD. The only consideration is whether you want a kids or can afford it. Beyond that you are overplanning in my opinion.

Those are great reasons to do a PhD but that doesn't come across in your post.
I was left with the impression that you are seeing it as a way to get out of your current job and you are considering it now because for some reason you are afraid of being too old if yo leave it any longer.

Both of those are really terrible reason to do one. That is where I am coming from.

Incidentally, let me add one more thing about your age worries. Let me put all this fear in context.
Your active adult life can be assumed to span the ages of 20 to 80 years of age.
60 years in total.

At 48, I am precisely 28 years into that 60 year period.
I am less than half way through my career. I have 32 years left. More than enough time.
If, having heard that, you still want to insist that 48 is too old to be a scientist then I respecfully disagree.

Life is a marathon to get to the age of 80, not a sprint to get everything done by 60.

I concur with pm133, I am 55 years of age and run my own business as a sole trader.

I have been wanting to undertake a PhD for many years. Not for career reasons - for personal reasons - to 'finish my education' - and I have a real+passion for the area I want to research - dating back some 20 years.

My business generates enough income for me to survive operating on a part-time business and I am hoping that will give me the time required to undertake a part-time PhD.

My last period in academia was 25 years ago when I got a Masters and I am struggling to put together a proposal and to understand exactly what the various Unis want to see in the proposal so I am concerned that I will not be accepted anywhere. I don't know anyone who has done or is doing a PhD so its all somewhat a shot in the dark!

Will have to see if anyone will take me on!

N

It's great to hear this. Unless what you want to do is very niche, you should have no problem getting something. It's worth remembering that most PhD positions attract very few candidates. My talks with supervisors over the last 9 years have taught me that they are more interested in attitude and desire for the position than anything else. Obviously, being out of academia for a while presents a challenge but older people are almost always better at stepping up to that challenge than younger people. It is worth quoting the head of admissions at my old department - "Mature students almost always outperform other undergraduates because they have focus - they know why they are here and what they want out of life. That is why we have a much lower grade requirements for those candidates." You can bet that postgraduate admissions will see it the same way.
I'll help as best as I can on the other thread you posted. Good luck with this.