Hello everyone, sorry to be ranting on my first post....

Has anyone else wondered why PhD stipends (£12,000 per year)are so low compared to other doctoral-level salaries? My girlfriend is doing the clinical psychology doctorate (DClinPsy) and I was amazed to discover that the salary is double that, for far better conditions (9-5 hours, plenty of support, and she gets a much less burdensome research project) and STILL get the perks of no council tax, student discounts etc. And this isnt an isolated phenomenon. My best mate who is doing an Engineering doctorate (EngD) is on £20 k a year and does far less work than I did for my PhD.

I started to question why hasn't anyone made a fuss about this sooner? We PhD students get paid far less than either of the above two groups or other professional doctorate holders, and this disparity gets worse after we graduate.

Surely if we are all doing doctorates, then we should all be getting similar money? Or am I missing something?

But then at least you have funding.

So what is your PhD in?

I daresay there are separate funding arrangements for industry-sponsored PhDs. However, those funded out of academia, although somewhat less, are much improved on what they used to be. 4 or 5 years ago the stipend was £6k a year. Also remember, it is tax free so the equivalent of a 16 or 17k job. It's not that bad when your compare it to the Undergrads lot!

No salaries are fair in academia - that's why we're all depressed.

Worst off are lecturers who can earn £25K with a doctorate and 5 year experience whilst doing a 50 hour week and stressed up to the eyeballs, when they could double their salary in industry.

As for PhD stipends, most internationals at my Uni are self-funded, and 12K is actually quite good compared to previously.

Stop grumbling

My PhD is in psychology in a fairly related area to my gfs, but whereas its fairly easy for her to find work, its considerably harder for me. Couple that with the postdoc hoop jumping and life on short term contracts, with no guarantee of a stable lectureship job its looking increasingly like a bad deal for me.

I am not going to start with the whole academic political power plays and stuff.

Sorry to be on a downer, and I realise that people have it worse off than me, its just that I am one of the ones that is starting to question the whole concept of working towards "academia" with such a bad pay off.

I do think that the early years post-PhD are rather rough - scrambling around PostDocs and short term contracts. Obviously the temptations of industry will take a fair number out of academia. Nonetheless, there are many who will fight it out. My intention (unless stuff happens) is to get in there. So publish, publish, publish and network, network, network!

But I have (And please feel free to jump in and tell me where I am going wrong here)

I have:

- A first class degree in Psychology from UCL.
- Took 4 years from starting to finishing my PhD viva
- Published 7 journal publications (high to moderate impact factors being 1st Author on 3 of them, second on rest)
- Won scholarships to attend 3 conferences/symposia in Europe and the USA, and met most of the influential people (their response: "We have our own people already with us, sorry".)
- Peer reviewed for two journals (in my name, about 4 if you count on behalf of my supervisor).
- Supervised 5 MSc Forensic psychology projects (for which I got no thanks).

I mean, am I am being lazy, or not doing something that I should be. I havent earned any money since my stipend ran out,and am surviving sponging off my gf (which makes me feel great)

I went to a temp agency today to find some work, any work, and they told me I could work at a hospital laundry for £5.95 an hour.

You get back biting in any industry, whether it's a University, multi-national corporation, a factory or Tescos.

Dustmen (Refuse executives) get £30K.

Oh god! Stories like yours make me afraid. Why academica, why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *claws at hair*

Maybe it's your bad haircut

Badhaircut, I'm sorry you're on such a downer. It's tough after a PhD. Have you thought about branching out of academia and looking for research jobs in the NHS? or perhaps approaching some of the mental health charities as your subject is psychology?

As for the discrepancy between the professional and academic doctorates, i know that with the DClinPsy there are far fewer places than there are for general academic PhDs. I think it's only about 1 in 5 applicants gets a place, they are extremely competitive and in short supply. Their funding is also dependent on the NHS as well and the rug can get pulled more sharply at any time. I know someone who got a place on one, then the NHS trust suspended the funding for the uni course. This was after my friend had given up her job and made arrangements to move there! So although the money may be more, there are other factors that are not so good.

Badhaircut: You sound totally unreasonable moaning about PhD funding! You are incredibly lucky to get funding in the first place, and getting £12,300 + full fees paid (another £3000) a year is not a rip off at all!

I used to work full time in a supermarket and I got around £690 take home pay a month and had to work late nights, every weekend, nightshifts, bank holidays etc. Why don't you do that for a year? I'm sure your 'rip-off' PhD funding will seem very generous in comparison.

At the end of the day doing a PhD is completely voluntary and if you dont like the pay and think you can earn a lot more doing something else then go and do it!

Believe me XJR working at a supermarket looks likely.

My original point about "being ripped off" was about PhDs being compared to other doctorates, which I still think unfair.

I have tried applying for jobs outside academia. NHS jobs doing research are something I have tried before, but will keep trying for.

As for being ungrateful, I secured funding competing against others, and I went through a hell of a lot more than some of the people on graduate trainee schemes that graduated with me. At the time I justified it with the dream of working in a subject I loved (and still love), learning about it, teaching and researching it.

I honestly thought that working hard, and just getting along with others would be okay. I should have spent more time kissing up to my head of department and stepping over the back of the postdoc in the next room.

I guess this is the last part of my academic training.