My understanding is that PhD students are often taken on as a source of cheap labour for departments. Instead of departments hiring PhD researchers/ post docs for a new project, it is often cheaper and easier to recruit a fresh PhD student. The lack of regulation in supply and demand of PhD students means we have a a HUGE attrition rate and a system where only a small percentage end up doing the job they have been painstakingly trained to do. All the while fresh PhD graduates arrive, making the competition even harder.

This does not denigrate the poor PhD students (who most likely dont know any better). I bet if we were to unionise and collectively threaten to strike, most research teams/ university departments would collapse. Its amazing we don't do this.

Additionally, I wonder what it is about us as a group that keeps us unempowered, under appreciated and accepting so much of the abuse we often take. Its not as if we are an uneducated or unskilled labour force that can understandably be exploited.

My hypothesis is that there is an "academic myth" that we all play a part in perpetuating. That we fashion impressionable undergrads to buying into an idea that academia is a prestigious, rewarding career that is achievable on merit and hard work. It is in the intrest of those already in the system either to keep themselves going, or to keep others under them subduded.

I feel if people saw the reality the picture would be VERY different.

I completely agree with you. it's a ridiculous system and salaries are poor compared with industry. But you have a choice. Leave the system if you don't like it. I probably will one day not too far away.

Badhaircut,

Surely a level of competition is required in order to force research to move at a suitable pace? As for the idea that impressionable undergraduates go into academia blind isn't that their fault rather than the fault of academia?

I am currently an undergraduate and prior to applying to PhD positions I researched thoroughly and appreciate that even within a single research group there is going to be competition let alone within a field. I also appreciate how difficult a career in academia is to get into.

Did you go straight into a PhD or did you work first? Perhaps if you worked first your expectations were different?

I agree with you Jon, a level of compeition IS a good thing, if it is based on merit and talent. I see a lot in academia that are more talented in playing the political game rather than being brilliant researchers. Do you think this sort of competition positively deveops a research field?

I am glad you are aware of some of the difficulties, but feel that its not until you have been in the system you appreciate things. Having witnessed departmental coup de etats, harrassment suites and seeing passing academic fads destroy the efforts of researchers, its hard to see the effect of these unless at first hand.

I worked for a little before coming onto my PhD, but I would rather focus on the issues I raise, rather than my own experiences.

I wonder if anyone here has read Grapes of Wrath? Its feels very much like that. Comments like "if you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" are all very well, but serve to defend the system rather than try to advance it.

again, as on the other thread, i am speaking from the experience of the germanophone area. while a (Masters-)student, my wage-earning job (i always had to pay my own way) was actually as the general secretary of the PhD-students' union of my university. So, some points:
- i guess it's easier to unionise if you are considered and consider yourself as people who work rather than people who study. in germany for example this is the case.
- even so, unions for PhD students are rarely very effective. the problem is, individual PhD students are usually very dependant on their supervisors. in the sense of there often being no real alternative, due to specialisation. that is, if your sup gets fed up with you and won't supervise you anymore, you have to quit your PhD, since there is no alternative. so you can never fight for your "rights" as any such fight would destroy your future prospects. your only hope is that your sup will stick to the rules without anybody forcing him/her to.

Listen, Badhaircut. Although you might be right it is unlikely that this system will change in the next 200 years in the UK. This is partly due to the fact that people, as you already pointed out, accept it - maybe for the wrong reasons or due to masochistic behaviour and character traits. Nevertheless, if you can't stand the heat, just leave the kitchen. It's very easy and I fully understand if people decide to do so. That's because I can't stand the heat myself and I'm defintiely planning to leave the kitchen/academia.

Thinking further, another thing that strikes me is that in my 4 years at my institution,is how little diversity there was.

In fact there was a huge over-representation of private school educated, middle class, white people (I am guilty of being the latter too). The few people I did meet from different cultures and backgrounds (one Indian scholar on sabbatical from Bangalore and a second generation Chinese guy who was another researcher) seemed to be from fairly affluent backgrounds. I suspect this is the same in most other universities.

I have NEVER met a black academic, and find this absence unnerving.

I can see there could be reasons for this, but I do think its scary that the conducting and dissemination of research is done by such a select group of society and you don't need to have a PhD to figure why this may be a problem.

I haven't found that: where I am the undergrads are 90% Asian, and the postgrads probably 60% non-white; and of the white postgrads, a majority are not British. I much prefer this: I would hate to be stuck in a situation such as you describe.

I do find that most students here are middle class though; and the middle class ones tended to get a lot more support from parents: even know one PhD whose mum made her sandwiches all though her degree

Sorry, I agree with you on some points but you are talking rubbish about the diversity issue. I'm in the science area and our department (actually the whole uni) could never be accused of being too "middle class" or "un-diverse" or whatever. I think academia is very diverse by its nature, as researchers we're constantly in touch with fellow academics all over the world!
I think something has obviously upset you and yeah, us PhD students do have to put up with some crap from supervisors and over-bearing post docs but there's no point bringing up issues that aren't there!
If you hate the system so much why are you fighting it? Life is too short! Look after yourself and find something that doesn't cause you so much aggravation, surely it's not worth it?!

I don't know about how anyone else feels but I think my experience as a PhD student feels very different from how people describe it on here and especially this particular thread.

(cont'd)
I do my 40hrs/week, I work a little part-time job. I'll do a bit of extra work if required at the weekends but I don't stay up til 5am doing lit reviews and I don't hate my supervisor! Is this normal? I mean, don't get me wrong, some aspects of the 'job' are very frustrating but nothing on the scale I've been reading...

About diversity, I was just talking from my own experiences of others (which I will admit is from a fairly elitist top 10 Russell group uni) and I will admit this is limited. If my experiences of PhD students being from fairly white, disproportionately privately educated backgrounds with supportive affluent parents is atypical, then none will be happier than I (It just means I REALLY should try to find work in another type of uni).

FYI, I keep fighting because I would like to do the job I have spent the last 4 years training to do, as an academic researcher. I don't believe the extra hurdles we face are necessary or helpful for us, our students, or the fields of research we are engaged in. Thats why I think they need to be challenged.

I always thought that being an academic was about analysing something, making criticisms and either support a model that is working well, or challenging one that isnt. Isnt that what we are all supposed to be doing?

However, while most of us are happy to do that in whatever field we specialise in, almost no one seems willing to address the "elephant in the corner" about how OUR current academic system needs changing.

I guarantee you, if I was somehow able to fight and provide for you...

- A stipend for every PhD student (that was deemed capable of studying at doctoral level) that could afford a basic, but comfortable lifestyle (i.e. paying for rent in a shared house, food, travel without having to work part time)
- Working conditions in line with the rest of the UK population (reasonable working hours, means of recourse if your supervisor takes a grudge)
- Some proper career structure for postdocs/ lecturers that doesnt involve 80% of the trained workforce having to leave.

...no one on this board would complain. Yet when I want to talk about this, everyone seems intent on shooting me down.

People are shooting you down because (i feel) you are telling us how we should think, act and behave at work.

I don't want you to provide for me and I don't want you fighting my corner! I can sort myself out thanks.

If you feel there is something wrong with the system, then fine, start some campaign/raise awareness. But don't expect blanket support from all PhD students, because not all of us feel like you and if we do, not everyone wants to do something about it. And its their choice to speak out or not, not for you to try and force the issue!

I also think your 'manifesto' is poor. For starters, as pointed out earlier, a £12k stipend is plenty to live on. If people take part-time jobs then its their choice and I'm sure they would've taken into account the possibility of doing pt work when they applied for their project.

Secondly, working conditions are fine, the hours are upto you (more or less) Although sups can be gits and their could be more of a structure/support there.
Career structure - do you need spoonfeeding man? Go to your careers office!