I'm not sure how to get what I'm about to say across without sounding like a total whack-job. I'm in my third year now, as I've probably said before, and I'm going to have to work harder than ever to get it done - thanks complicated mixed methods! The thing is, though, I'm wondering whether it's all going to be worth it in the end? I'm not going to have a life for this year - I'm going to be an absolute slave to my work and do whatever is necessary. This means it's going to be more lonely than ever and involve just getting up, working, going to bed.
If I do well and pass, expectations from others, for future work will be high - assuming I ever get a post-doc. The problem is that I don't want to finish my PhD and have to face it, in the same way, all over again - the monk-like isolation, stress of deadlines, writing, thinking, writing, revising... Contrary to popular belief, I'm really not a jibbering weirdo and I want to do everything that normal humans do, like get drunk, meet new friends, have relationships, settle down. I miss that most with doing a PhD, and it's made me more acutely aware of this need than ever before.
If doing research means that I have to forfeit all these things, then sack it, I'm not doing research. So my question is, does research, if you are to be successful, really suck up your life that much? Honestly, I'm 28, and before this PhD used to get asked for ID when buying beer. Now, I don't. So, I don't want to succeed in academia if I can't succeed in other areas of life, like normal people. Obviously, I'm not implying that academics are all strange people - but some are:$
All my friends are settled down and very happy, buying houses, getting married and so forth. My sister has two adorable little girls and my big brother has one. And then there's me, drowning in a stack of papers in a dingy little room. In my more existential moments, I think: "Shit, is this going to make you happy?"
So, apologies for the self-pitying rant, but I suppose my question is, does being a researcher mean you're doing a PhD all over again in terms of the time and commitment? As much as I sometimes like my work, the uniqueness of it, I don't want to kiss it, I certainly don't fancy it and more than anything, I don't want to spend my life alone with it.

Gosh Walminski, you are sounding like a Smith's song! ;-) (Which to me, is a good thing!).

But I hear ya, absolutely. I'm in the same position, except almost at the end of the third year and will need to seek an extension. I've also been thinking about this a lot lately, and have decided that I honestly can't face anymore of this monk-like existence after I finish, so don't want to do any more research work.

I think research work is different from a PhD, as you do get the interaction of field work (depending on your discipline) and also colleagues, and it's more like a job and not a bloody sentence. But the academics I know also do spend a lot of time alone, researching and writing. And also being a research assistant, I do all my RA work alone, in my room. So yeh, it's grim, and not a lifestyle I think I want to pursue. But it also depends what sort of an academic you want to be - if you're also teaching, then you'd get lots of stimulus and would welcome the research time to think and write. I think that would be a better balancing of tasks. But can also lead to overload, and academics I know put in horrendous amounts of unpaid overtime to get the research done, and then seem to quite resent all the time they need to spend on teaching and associated tasks.

I also think you should not plan to spend all your time in monk-like solitude, and build in time every week to meet with friends, get drunk, forge relationships etc. Otherwise you'll crack up, and be a sobbing mess in your dingy room, and we don't want that.

It can do - it's one of the reasons that led to me quitting. I remember after having quit my supervisor had a good talk with me saying how his research puts a strain on his family as iy is never really off your mind. How could it be? Depends if you love it or not. For me - I wanted to get out. Now I'm working 9-5 and my time is my own after work - hang out with friends, saving a hefty deposit for a house and have started to play guitar seriously again. It's amazing - work will never come before enjoying life again! Unless again work is your life and you love your research :)

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Unpaid overtime is a symptom of our times and many professions. However those that do it willingly when it's not needed... :o Does not compute... Usually tied to kissing the bosses ass to be honest.
I constantly have to ask why working hours are going up yet wages have remained almost static despite massive rises in assets such as property - it's harder to get by than ever and I'd rather use extra time to chill out or get a second job which pays for those hours.

I can't speak from experience regarding researching - I'm not there yet, but this is something that bothers me in my darker hours too lol! I really do think that we must force ourselves out of our cells and into the real world where normal people live at least once a week - its too easy to get bogged down by deadlines and retreat into the dingy room. I'm a little different to you in that I came to all this later - I once had a life... I have a husband and children and a home, therefore it is different, very different, but in another way even harder. I have missed SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much, especially as my youngest was only 11 months old when I went to uni for the BA and haven't stopped since. I've made so many sacrifices, and so has my family, so I feel I owe it to them to carry on and force through this to the other end. You know, there are some academics who are a bit odd, but many of them have lives, real ones, they have interaction with normal people, they go out, they get married, they have kids, they have all those things, so working in research can't be like a PhD really can it ;-)

On the other side, having been out there, the grass isn't greener. You want a good job, you work extra hours, my brother works from about 8am-7-8pm most nights and is expected to go in on weekends and work then too! Ok, he gets overtime, but its not really voluntary, he doesn't do it he won't get promotion and he'll be sidelined.... most of my friends out there find the same, so maybe its just modern life?

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I hope you don't say that as if you are surrendering to it! The worst thing people can do is work those hours 'just because'. If so, it'll become standard. I think it's less modern life as it is management sucking you dry. I see people staying late all the time at work but I'd rather have my dignity and a life than stay to please the boss - they wouldn't blink if it came to laying people off, a job's just a job etc, you have to look out for yourself. I always laugh at these con job ads which say 'fast paced work environment, must be self starter, early responsibillity' etc - IMO this translates to exploitation - I know, I've worked many of the jobs. Career in my opinion is another name for unpaid overtime. Don't get me wrong, I work hard and enjoy what I do now, but you have to be a bit street smart and see through the BS, and not lie down and take whatever they throw at you. When I'm in my death bed, I want to be able to say I had a great time and didn't work my life away.

Hi,

I think third year of PhD is like that but if you go on to post doc or lectureship it can be quite cushy and good for familly life actually. I had a lecturer who used to help in the labs and when it got to five o clock he was like 'right I'm off I've got to go give my son his bath'. My tutor (very well repected theoretical physicist) used to roll into the office at 10 in the morning. On the other hand I know of another professor who goes in over christmas even though the heating is turned off in the building (what a surprise he's single). Third year of PhD- yes you have to work hard but after that I think it can be quite flexible if you carry on in academia and who's to say you have to carry on in academia? You could get a job in industry where it's more likely to be normal job hours. If you've got this far I would say stick at it if only so that you get to be called 'dr'. At the end of the day there are single sad academics but there are also ones with families and kids and there are single people whose life is their work in all jobs. I would say take up something that is at like a scheduled time each week that is like down time. - I have a yoga class that I go to and whatever I'm doing, at that time I stop it and go to the class. Bonus points if you do something like that with some mates. Also you have to eat so maybe try and go for lunch/ dinner with mates too. I reckon you can squeeze a couple of fun non PhD things in there without loosing too much time (anyway you work more efficiently when less stressed anyway).

Hi,

I think third year of PhD is like that but if you go on to post doc or lectureship it can be quite cushy and good for familly life actually. I had a lecturer who used to help in the labs and when it got to five o clock he was like 'right I'm off I've got to go give my son his bath'. My tutor (very well repected theoretical physicist) used to roll into the office at 10 in the morning. On the other hand I know of another professor who goes in over christmas even though the heating is turned off in the building (what a surprise he's single). Third year of PhD- yes you have to work hard but after that I think it can be quite flexible if you carry on in academia and who's to say you have to carry on in academia? You could get a job in industry where it's more likely to be normal job hours. If you've got this far I would say stick at it if only so that you get to be called 'dr'. At the end of the day there are single sad academics but there are also ones with families and kids and there are single people whose life is their work in all jobs. I would say take up something that is at like a scheduled time each week that is like down time. - I have a yoga class that I go to and whatever I'm doing, at that time I stop it and go to the class. Bonus points if you do something like that with some mates. Also you have to eat so maybe try and go for lunch/ dinner with mates too. I reckon you can squeeze a couple of fun non PhD things in there without loosing too much time (anyway you work more efficiently when less stressed anyway).

All I can say from the perspective of being a postdoc who gets to attend staff meetings now is that being a lecturer in a Russell Group / 1994 group university is much worse than doing a PhD, when it comes to the expectations of long hours. Yes as far as I can see you are less isolated, as your e-mail never stops pinging with complaints from disgruntled students, administrators who have just redesigned that report form for the third year on the row and need the report redone by yesterday etc. But essentially, you're meant to do just as much research as a PhD student does (if not more) coupled with teaching, dealing with students, unbelievable amounts of quality assurance administration all while being shouted at by management for not hitting the 90% target for student satisfaction, failing to get every single PhD student out the doors in under 4 years regardless of those students' problems, and needing every item for the REF to be of international renown quality - anyone who couldn't make it should start looking for jobs elsewhere was the unspoken message. That's the summary of my faculty's provost's address to my departmental staff meeting last month. Oh and he's bullying a female lecturer for having the temerity to want to take her full entitlement to maternity leave at a crucial point in the REF cycle. Nice man... - apparently he's better than his predecssor, which speaks volumes for the quality of university managers. The department in question by any rational measure is doing very well by the way.

Anyway the point of this, is as I am having doubts about an academic career anyway, I asked someone after this horrible meeting, why would anyone want to be an academic and put up with the sort of bullying that seems commonplace. She said that it really was only worth doing if you loved research - i.e. yes you go home to put your kids to bed, but then you get the books out again for a few hours each evening but that you enjoy doing that.

'..the monk-like isolation'

I was just taking a quick break from collecting data and to have a cup of tea when I read your post. I was feeling a bit fed up, then I read this whilst sipping my tea and nearly spat it into the computer screen while trying not to laugh. I feel a lot better now!

Since February I have been working in an office on my own and sometimes don't see another researcher or student for days on end. I'm in the final year now. So only about 12/18 months to go before I can relax a little and get a job in the real world again. 8-)

Oh dear, Bewildered, that was an enormously depressing read. On the other hand, it's good to hear the other side!

Sorry - it's just that meeting really got to me and made me think a lot. I do think I've over-idealised academia as a collegiate endeavour where knowledge and learning mattered above all. The reality really isn't like that. I've been a civil servant and thought I'd seen it all in terms of bad management, but the utter lack of respect this guy showed to them (including a couple of big name profs) was just incredible. I honestly don't think it's possible for them to do everything he demanded given they've got budget cuts, people leaving and not being replaced - it must be just so demoralising, feeling you're being set up to fail. They tried to raise issues with them e.g. if they had to get every PhD student submitted in four years, would the faculty stop forcing them to accept students who didn't have good academic track records, poor English or where there was no-one remotely capable of supervising that topic - the answer was that they just had to deal with it. I'm now starting to really realise where some of the pressure my ex-supervisor put on me was really coming from.

Hey, Sue2604, nice to hear you like Morrisey - he's a talented chap. Some of his lyrics resonate with me, in fact, as I sit to work on my PhD and contemplate a potential future as a researcher..."Heaven knows I'm miserable now". In return, I can tell you that there is an Antipodean flavour to my taste in music with my appreciation of Crowded House, who have songs that can be every bit as miserable as Morrissey's.."You go quietly, my miserable friend, to the depths of despair you will crawl"...basically me again, as I attempt to write a systematic literature review for publication and think about having to do it for a living.
I was almost liberated from the shackles of despair by the 'bugger them, life is for living comments' made by the Guitarman (whom I am pleased has done very well for himself since giving up his PhD) and elevated by the reassuring comments made by Tasha about the possibility of being normal, doing normal things and being a researcher at the same time! Bewildered then gave the benefit of her experiences...bugger, I bloody knew it!
It's not that I'm afraid of hard work. I wouldn't have worked as hard as I have for all the years I have if I were. It's just there has to be a line between the normal (progress in life in general) and the abnormal (life as an all-consumed, RAE slave-pleasing researcher). I don't want to sound self-obsessed, but I'm actually quite a shy person (when not behind a keyboard) and as a result of the all-consuming nature of my research (which occupies my mind like Isaac Newton possessed), I desperately need a haircut (I look like Morrisey from the 80s, Sue2604!) and shave. The, what I perceive to be introverted, nature of research could mean that this will be me 10 years down the line, the only difference being that I have been worked in 10 different locations in the search for post-doc work and short-term contracts, now have a hunchback, RSI, badly stained teeth from drinking lots of tea and coffee and even bigger eye bags.
I'm certainly not slagging off academia though; I've enjoyed myself so far more than I ever have in a call centre, on an outband telesales campaign, cold calling unsuspecting women and trying to sell breast cancer insurance to them (the women employees did better than the men), or doing field sales, trying to sell pathetic magazines to different households (Candis magazine anyone? £3-50!). It's just, I want a career in academia and research to be such that I can disconnect and have a life with everything I want to develop and have, whilst at the same time working hard for a career I have trained for. Thank you for your perspectives on it guys - you've been very helpful. I'm fortunate enough to have a very good supervisory team, and I'll bring the issue up with them - hopefully not sounding like some prima-donna. :-)

Just think of the long-term goal and if it makes you happy, do whatever it takes to get you there.

My goal is to save like mad and buy a little bungalow almost outright in order to have some sort of security when older. I know the electronics industry is volatile and most folks have to move all over the place - if it comes to that I wouldn't mind going to Germany/U.S. etc for a bit, as long as I can come back to my little bungalow (not very rock, but hey). I do enjoy what I do and read up on it in my spare time to be a better engineer, but if it came to it and I was financially comfortable, I wouldn't mind doing another job - even starting a business. One thing I couldn't see myself doing was staying in research - I could have stayed on my PhD but it wouldn't have got me toward my goal any quicker and I really wasn't suited to it. I've just satisfied another goal of mine - to work closer to home! I have now cut my commute from 1hour+ down to 15mins..! The impact it will have on my life will be tremendous.

My other main goal is to have fun and enjoy life - get better at guitar (main priority ;) ), play the odd computer game, read more books, see more films, hang out with friends and girlfriend.

I suggest listening to some amazing 80s rock! Guns and Roses for starters!! ;D

Life's way too short.. I turned 25 today and I'm going to make sure to have fun. Took the day off, going bowling, to the cinema, and then having a big steak for dinner later on - you betcha!! :D

Hi Guitarman,

Happy Birthday! I've been reading your posts on this thread and think you've your head screwed on. Enjoying life should be everyone's priority. Something I'm only beginning to realise...