Hi everyone,

I'm a new poster on here, but an occasional reader. I've sometimes found others' stories and discussions really helpful during jmy time as a phd student, and have been impressed with the discussions that take place on here, so I thought it might be a good sounding board for something I am plotting.....

I recently had my phd thesis examined and unfortunately scored a set of major revisions. None of the revisions were particularly difficult, just that it would mean restructuring some parts of the thesis. I was a fully funded research council student, but now have no income so due to family responsibilities, I take care of kids most days so my partner can work to support us all. Hence, revisions are coming very slowly indeed.

What links this situation to the post title is the fact that I received very little supervision in the last 3 years. A combination of sabbaticals, research leave and a supervisor who went to another institution just combined to mean I had very little input. What is most annoying is that I asked my errant supervisor countless times about many of the issues that came up as revisions. This is just a very brief synopsis but to make my point, I can show that with supervision the extent of my revisions would have been significantly less. Therefore, I would not be in the financial/ work situation I am in at the moment.

I have complained but my uni can do very little to address the supervisor who has left. What makes me think about suing is that I can quantify the losses that these revisions are costing me very well indeed, every day I spend at work on revisions must be paid for in lost earnings or childcare!

Is this a bit petty? Perspective would help. Thanks, Grizzle

While you may be able to "quantify the losses," how do you prove (in any legal context) that inadequate supervision led to specific viva outcome, or that better supervision would have led to fewer revisions? You'd need to prove causality, somehow, and I don't think this is possible.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it seems better to be honest than suggest you pursue a course of action that would cost you more money, heighten anxiety, and in all likelihood further delay your thesis revisions. Such action may also damage your career, whether you're looking for an academic post and need connections or a reference, or need a reference for work in industry. (It shouldn't be this way, but it is.)

Perhaps a member with better legal knowledge can advise, but I don't think you'd be onto a winner here. Getting your revisions done as soon as possible and moving on is probably the best way forward.

I wouldn' t sue ...
Many students get major revisions; I see it just as a part of getting the PhD.
Besides, that would cost you a lot of time and energy. I would use my resources to finish the revisions instead.

Thanks for your replies, Nick 1 and Tatjana. The reason for even thinking about suing is the possibility to support myself and family through the revisions; without an income I can barely afford time to work on them, the only way would be to pay for childcare with a credit card, which is not attractive.

My first post was brief due to a word limit, but I think I can prove that lack of supervision has had a material effect on my outcome; I am being asked to make changes which I had asked my supervisor about, on several occasions. I received no reply so decided not to make the changes. I also asked several times whether I should ask for a supervisor within my dept before it was too late, and each time my supervisor replied to assure me he was just unavailable until such-a-date, then I would contact again and be fobbed off til a future point etc. etc. All of this is recorded in e-mails.

No phd student, and certainly not me, really has the expertise and judgement to see a thesis through without guidance, that's why we're matched to a supervisor in the first place. It's not too far of a stretch to imagine that without supervision a student won't do as well as a student with supervision.

Take for example my upgrade to phd, I stormed through it with very positive feedback, I think this is because I had worked according to plans made with the guidance of a supervisor. After that I got nothing, hence key structural problems in the thesis I had submitted. At the same time a colleague in the dept had their thesis read over 3 times prior to submission, by two professors. I had a draft of four chapters read in 2012 and someone took pity on me and skimmed my thesis after I submitted it, in prep for my viva (4 weeks later).

I'm not sure how a claim against a supervisor might impact on future references. The reason I am even contemplating a civil case is because the institution cannot do anything now that he has moved on, and he wasn't working for them when he f*cked me off. I am not the only one, as it happens, and the institution are very apologetic and doing what they can.

I think any case is unlikely to be successful, and unless you can find a firm to take you on a no-win no-fee basis you are likely to spend a lot in legal fees that you will not get back.

And it will impact on future references. Your ex supervisor will never write you a positive reference after this, and it's unlikely others at your university would either.

My best advice is that you get on with the revisions, and move on from this. Chalk it up as experience. Yes there is still a legacy that may impact on other students, especially at your supervisor's new university, but you have done enough to try to fix it.

And I'm sorry, but storming an upgrade does not mean that you won't end up with major revisions. Equally someone who has the most attentive supervisor can still fail.

Also as an ex part-time student I find it hard to believe that you cannot claw out hours here and there to work on your revisions. I had to manage my PhD near the end in 5 hours total a week, in 1 hour chunks spread throughout the week. I got through. PhD revisions do not need to be all-consuming in time terms. Get yourself a job, and work in the evening and/or weekends. That's how part-time PhD students manage.

And at least you haven't been given a fail. If you do your revisions you should pass. Focus on that. That's what you need to spend your limited time and other resources on, not a futile legal case.

Just read that you have family responsibilities. So the getting a job isn't an option, I understand. But you should still be able to find time to work on this. Break down what you need to do into a to-do list, and start working through it systematically. I recommend starting with the hardest tasks, to get them out of the way. Alternatively if you prefer go for the easiest things, and tick each one off the list as you do it - good for the motivation, and to see progress. It does not sound from your description as if it should take too long. And focus on that. Do not think you can sue and get an income to cover you. Also any legal case would probably be extremely lengthy, never mind extremely expensive in fees.

As difficult as this situation is, it is your thesis and supervisors are only there for guidance. Students should always make decisions that they are happy with, not just because their supervisors tell them to, or think they should, or in your case, just don't reply. The student is the one left to defend the thesis alone in the viva to a set of examiners who may have different opinions from the supervisor.

I agree with the others: chalk it up to experience, get the revisions done, get a pt job if possible, and move on.

I agree with BilboBaggins, for example, that it may involve a lot of legal fees such that you may even become poorer. In the end, the lawyers win...

Interestingly, a recent decision of the Ontario Court of Appeal has established a new defined area in which universities no longer have exclusive jurisdiction in disputes with their students. Students seeking money as a remedy for consequences that impact on their career may use the precedent of the case of Manon Gauthier. Just google "Manon Gauthier". However, it is a "very big" risk.

I have to disagree with you Treeoflife, supervisors have a responsibility to students to oversee their project, it is a requirement of the role, or at least is purported to be in my student handbook. I would have even been happy with "guidance" but the point I wish to make is that I received no guidance, "ask me in May/ July/ October" is not guidance. I have the support of my department in making a complaint, but the person my complaint relates to has moved on, there is nothing the dept. can do or could have done. I am looking for alternatives to this. My argument with my supervisor boils down to an agreement that he would perform a certain role which he clearly did not do, I think there is a case to make because I got no guidance, not just "bad" guidance which is always subjective. I suppose in legal-ish terms this is a breach of contract or some such thing.

Even if I don't pursue this any further there must be someone with this experience, or at least it is a general question- how can students under the remit of supervisors at a different institution secure the input that they require?

I don't want to sound ungrateful to those that have posted strategies for getting on with work, but that is not the issue here at all and I am happy with my strategy for approaching the revisions, if I can get the time to do them without financial hardship or worse.

Likewise, the upgrade example I gave was to illustrate the difference in work that I produced with and without guidance, because phds are only assessed at the end, the upgrade is the only comparison I could give to illustrate that I am capable of producing passable thesis material.

I will look in to the case you mention, meaninginlife if only for comparison because I am not sure that the precedent would apply in UK, do you know? In any case, thanks for mentioning it.

Finally just to clear it up, I'm not asking my ex-supervisor for a reference, or even contemplating doing so ever. I doubt I will need this reference as I have offers of references from others which I am happier with.

Well I have looked in to Manon Gauthier, and that case was a student suing the institution, I then stumbled upon the idea of mediation. What do you think? I would formally ask the person in question to pay a fair sum for messing me about at an absolutely crucial time, something which would reflect that he bears some responsibility for the position I am now in. I would have contacted him directly but I am wary of anything being misconstrued.

You've asked what we think. You're not listening.

But here goes again. If you try mediation I think the supervisor will say no. You then have the option of an expensive and prolonged legal case, which you are unlikely to win.

Just do those revisions!

You still may have been stuck with major revision even if your supervisor did give you feedback. Examiners and supervisors aren't part of a borg-like collective that think the same. The link between your financial hardship and your supervisor not giving you feedback x years ago isn't strong, and wouldn't stand up in court.

As Biblo and the others suggest, do the revisions, get your PhD and move on.

Did you raise or go down any formal route of complaint to your institution about lack of supervision over the years of your PhD? If not that makes a legal case even more slim as you are expected to have exhausted all other avenues of complaint usually before bringing a legal case. I'd also imagine the case you would make would be a breach of contract and if you had funding I'd suspect the legal argument would then be with the contract maker which in fact is your institution. I see it is a messy situation and you were let down badly. I do think there needs to me more done to protect PhD students. But, this is a distraction to you doing you revisions and moving on. In the words of Disney 'let it go' and good luck.

Grizzle, I wouldn't do anything if I were you. You may put yourself in a very awkward position if you do so (and even make things worse). Something that the university may say against you is: 'if you didn't like the way your supervisor worked with you, why did you not complain before submitting your thesis? You had X years to do so'. Plus, us others write, it will cost you a lot to file a legal complaint. Universities are not sympathetic to personal situations, like raising children. It is well-known how academia and parenthood don't blend well together. Sad but true. I am sorry for what you are experiencing and I wish you luck.

I agree with everyone on here. It would be very difficult to make a legal case and you would be much better off just doing the revisions a lot of other people manage to make time to do them around other commitments.
However if you do still wish to persue this route then one thing I would check is, did the university have a set amount of contact time a supervisor should have with his students? At my university we should have an average of 1 hour a week (this includes replying to emails) if this was specified anywhere then it would be easier to prove breach of contract.