Does anyone else get brassed off with the way that post-PhDs without jobs yet are expected to produce academic outputs without getting paid for it?

I get brassed off with the entire PhD funding/academic training/pyramid scheme career pathway thing. Of which I guess that's an aspect.

The more I understand about academia the more I think it's a mug's game. Unless your PhD is on a specific topic/gives you specific technical skills that is/are valued outside of academia, then a PhD is never a good career move.

I have to agree with you. Convinced success in academia matter of luck and connections more than talent!

In that regard, it's no different to most other professions - where you have to 'play the game'. Hard work and commitment are another key to success in academia (again like most other professions).

Yup, and the fact that 90% of people take over 3 years (usually the full 4 years) to finish a PhD and yet the majority of funding stops at 3 years. Supervisors and unis just take it for granted that you are willing to work for free for a year...surely it's against some kind of human rights!

Tell me about it! Total exploitation.

Having been a member of another profession before doing my PhD, I'd have to disagree that it's exactly the same.

Living tax free for three years on a scholarship paid for by the taxpayer would be considered by many in the community to be exploitation. Heck, in Australia, we can even apply for (and in most cases, get) a six month extension to a scholarship. Given those very generous concessions, it's not unreasonable to expect students to finish within that time, and if they don't, to adequately provide for themselves in the interim.

It's tax-free because the money comes from the government (if you are research council funded) so they'd be taxing themselves... Although I'm sure in some parts of the country the money is generous, here in the South East of England it is just enough to scrape by on. So when the money runs out it is a massive ask for someone to live on nothing. I know some people can move in with parents etc, but if you can't it's such a massive stress knowing that you have 4 years to do your PhD but no money for the last part! Yes you can complete a PhD in 3 years, but in most cases something out of your control can go wrong (experiments failing, weather problems for outdoor work, illness etc) which delays you. I know of one person who handed in on time and it was because nothing went wrong at all, very rare!

In order to finish within three years, a molecular biologist would have to stop experiments at 2.5 years. This isn't practical. Universities know full well people don't finish within three years, yet that's the funding they offer. This isn't an unlucky coincidence.

Hi Barramack,

here in London the studentship can be anything from £15K to £18K depending on the funding body, while the cheapest room one can find is £7K, without including commuting. Funding is for three years, although everyone takes at least 3.5 years. Moreover, when we work in the department, we don't get paid extra because teaching activities, marking, supervising dissertations are "in our contract, and is good for our CVs".
When at the same time the universities charge £12K for each master student (or more) and contribute more than 12 billion in the UK economy!

Most of us work in funded projects, and do exactly what a post-doc does for half the money. We are the cheap cheap labor at the bottom of the feeding chain. We are expected to have an academic output of at least three journal publications, without of course getting paid extra for the time it requires. We don't get maternity leave, sick leave, nothing.

I just submitted my PhD at exactly 4 years, absolutely poor and in debt. In my case, I had very little savings when I started the PhD, and I have no one to help me out financially, because my £7K rent is what my whole family earns cumulatively. I had to work throughout the last year, while writing up, and couldn't even earn enough money to buy food everyday. I can never afford to take more than a day-off per month. I don't even remember when was the last time I bought clothes, or other "unnecessary" expenses, like new glasses.

So, yes, doing this unnecessary thing the PhD, and living the luxurious life of a PhD student on tax-payers money! I will now move in a brown paper back in the park, because I don't deserve hot water, or heating or food.

and the large number of PhD students that don't live this life of luxury because they're self-funded?