Hello everyone.
I had a meeting today with the Director of Subject Group(the guy who sorts out teaching) and he raised an issue about my teaching style. Apparently "eyebrows have been raised" about the fact that I am relatively informal with my (undergrad) students. As I myself am a student (although PG) and many of my students are a similar age to me rather than 18 yr olds, I tend to see them as equals, I also find that a more relaxed atmosphere helps improve debate in a seminar situation.
I have also been warned off socialising with students, being told that I leave myself open to "ever increasing student litigation". I can see why the university wouldn't want to appear unprofessional, but in my experience going to the pub with the lecturer is the norm. Anyone else find that its not?

In my experience, there is a clear separation between PhD student/Postdocs/academics AND undergraduates.

I guess you are the victim of being "frowned upon" for not conforming to the "norm" of creating a sort of professional distance between yourself and undergrads. It's all a pile of bullxxit, but you can't ever hope to change the accepted norms of your institution unless you are prepared to challenge them and make an issue of this "unwritten code of conduct". It is NOT worth challenging anyone on this issue - you have greater things at stake here.

Litigation is a big issue in academia at the moment in the UK and certainly as more and more students see themselves as customers, they are becoming increasingly aware of their rights under higher education law. I'd take this guys advice, because students could complain...the chances of this happening increase when you blur the lines between being a tutor/demonstrator and someone who hangs around with undergrads...they'll be the first to drop you in it if anything goes wrong and when formal complaints etc rear their ugly head, you can be assured that you will never hear the end of it.

Universities in the UK have a reputation for being spectacularly bad at dealing with complaints and grievances, so take your Director's advice and keep your professional distance for your own sake.

If you really want some good insight into the potential for problems for students who defend their rights then have a glance at some of these links:

http://bulliedacademics.blogspot.com/
http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/pubs/98tk/

Taught undergrads with another colleague who was rather “informal”, I learnt a huge lesson from his case. He landed himself in hot soup as some of the things he had said "informally" were used against him by a group of students. Case turned ugly as formal complaints were put up by the students in question. Luckily he got away with a caution. so my advice is that undergrads are certainly in a league of their own and they are better left there cause they may cause more trouble than one needs for the lecturer and the university as a whole when it comes to litigation issues. A higher degree of formality is the way forward even if they are your age mates. Things do get relaxed/ informal at Post grad level I think.

Wow - this is very interesting. I give small group supervisions which tend to be very informal and 'chatty'. It is rare but not unknown for me to go to the pub with students even though I am old enough to be their mothers (with years to spare). I probably should be a bit more careful about what I say.

This is really interesting actually... I wouldn;t go to the pub with undergrads I don't think, unless they were mature students? Because I am new to this and would want to keep a professional distance. postgrads though, hmmm, not so bad. When I was doing my MA my lecturers would come out and have a couple of drinks and then go home... Two would stay out and get drunk, one would keep his composure and we always saw him as a lecturer first and foremost so all was cool, but the other one would get very drunk and just too informal, even being rude sometimes and falling over! He was a terrible teacher too though...

In my experience there has been always been a very clear line between students and staff, and students and PG research staff. In one case, if we didn't complete work, we had to write formal apology letters to the staff or PG TAs concerned(v. strict! and over the top).

Sleephead, I can, for the most part, understand your university's concerns, and it's probably just a knee-jerk reaction to advice your director has received from the higher powers concerned about litigation (particularly in terms of sexual harassment and favouritism). A close friends of mine didn't have his TA position re-newed because he taught his students in an informal manner (despite still being very professional).

Ironically, in the US they are more strict about student-Professor relationships, but I find there is a much more informal atmosphere when it comes to teaching and socialising.

It's a sad situation, but like someone said, it's probbaly all about litigation. I don't think that the lecturer/undergrad relationship should be seen as the same as the teacher/pupil one.

I wonder if parents (who may be paying the fees) are behind this -infantilising their adult offspring. My supervisor has had parents of 25 year old students march into his office and demand school-style behaviour and grade reports every term. Sad!

"My supervisor has had parents of 25 year old students march into his office and demand school-style behaviour and grade reports every term. Sad!"

Given the cost of HE these days, it doesn't surprise me at all that some parents will resort to this. Particularly, if their offspring are using their university days as a three year holiday. The students must be horrified!

I remember ripping up my sixth form college grade report when I hit 18, I deemed it none of parents' business anymore.

I don't know about elsewhere, just that in my dept., there is little informality between ugrads/staff-of-any-description. Things changed slightly on the MA, and now, doing a PhD, it's all very informal, going to the pub etc. Probably because people grow up, can deal with such things more maturely, less reprisals. The only exception is with my direct sup..

I'd agree with most of what is written here- I went to the pub with undergrads and it was a very bad idea, mainly because they and the module leader starting bitching about another undergrad student in their class, and it's very hard to draw lines re. what is acceptable/what isn't in an informal setting. I guess it depends what the students are like that you might be socialising with, but it is definitely something I wouldn't do again based on the experience which I had.

That's the thing; more than anything I find it rather sad. As I mentioned, many of my students are mature (25+, I am 26). In my first year PhDs regularly socialised with the permanent staff, but the member of staff who organised this has left, and now the staff attitude to PhD students is very much that we are their inferiors. As such I found it refreshing and interesting to socialise with my mature UGs. Certain students have contacted me about a range of issues (how to find a dentist, how to appeal a cut in disability benefit) and I do feel that part of being a University tutor is pastoral care. But I guess it is very much open to interpretation