It's almost a year since I passed my viva and I still don't have a job. I'm currently working a part-time call centre job to pay my rent which is utterly soul destroying. The problem is that I appear to have fallen into this black hole which has opened up between PhD and employment.

I've tried applying for positions advertised as suitable for "early career researchers", but feedback has indicated that universities want applicants to be "research active", which basically means they want you to have half a dozen publications and well defined research interests. As a recent PhD graduate I only have a couple of papers I wrote with my supervisor a couple of years ago, plus my thesis.

So I can't get a job unless I'm "research active"... but I can't become "research active" because nobody will give me a job! How am I supposed to define my research interests and produce half a dozen publications when I don't have a university job or access to time and facilities and funds which will allow me to do research?

A professor at one university said that several years ago it was expected that a recent PhD graduate wouldn't have an established research career, and the whole point of an entry level position was for such candidates to have an opportunity to become established. However nowadays they want applicants to already be established before they even get a job! He acknowledged that this results in recent PhD graduates being unable to bridge the gap between PhD and employment, but said that isn't his problem... unemployment is so high that he can recruit established researchers into entry level positions, so there's no incentive for him to give an opportunity to a true entry level researcher.

So now I am utterly disheartened because there seems to be absolutely no way for me to bridge this gap, and no way for me to get a job. Why did I waste my time doing the PhD? Someone should have told me that universities won't employ recent PhD graduates nowadays :(

Can you get any more publications out of your thesis work, in collaboration with your former supervisor? New publications would have far more impact on your CV than your thesis alone.

Do you still have access to a uni careers service? They might be able to look at your CV/applications to see if you're missing any tricks with regard to 'selling yourself' for particular jobs.

I think I can get 2-3 papers out of my thesis, and I'm currently trying to write these with my ex-supervisor, in my spare time when I'm not at my call centre job. However he has said it could take 12 months or more to actually get these accepted for publication.

The issue is that this still does not constitute being "research active" - I still won't be an established researcher with half a dozen publications and research grants issuing copiously from my rear end. I contacted the most recent university who rejected me and asked if 2-3 PhD-related publications would be enough for my application to be considered seriously, and was advised that it would not. So I'm not even sure why I'm wasting my time writing them, and I don't see what else I can do :(

Hi Mlis, I'm sorry you have to go through such a horrible situation. I wonder if you can do some teaching instead of working in a call centre? My uni employ PhD students and those who are in the gap like you to teach undergraduate courses. It doesn't pay very well (no pay in summer term of holidays for example), but at least you get to stay in an academic environment and have access to research facilities?

Last year I did a couple of hours teaching per week. This did not provide me with an office or a desk, nor any research funds or equipment, nor access to a lab. I had access to a classroom for the duration of the class and that was all. This year they don't need any external lecturers, and they said they're trying to allocate teaching hours to full-time staff where possible as they don't have the money to spare for external lecturers such as myself.

I have spoken to the careers service, and it's plain to everyone concerned that my failure to even get an interview is solely due to the fact that universities immediately put my application form in the bin due to a lack of recent publications. One feedback message from a university stated "We only consider applicants with 4-6 recent publications. Please feel free to re-apply if/when you meet this criteria".

I am unsure how I can possibly address this issue as an unemployed PhD graduate with no funds or facilities, especially when I'm working another job to pay the rent. My ex-supervisor is kindly helping me to draft two papers related to my thesis, but he is not obliged to do so, and without his help I would be up s*** creek in terms of being able to publish anything at all. However I'm not sure where I can produce a total of 4-6 publications from, without having the funds and facilities to do more research studies. I doubt that many PhDs graduate with four recent publications... some graduate with NO publications... so how are PhD graduates supposed to get entry level academic jobs?!

Hi Mlis,

Sorry to hear you are having a tough time. I was just wondering if you have applied for any other jobs outside of academia? I don't know what field you are in, but could you try working in industry? I know it may not be your first career choice but industry probably won't care about recent publications, and you may still get to do some research. I work in biological sciences, so could apply for jobs at a pharmaceutical company, for example. They may not require a PhD necessarily, but often you get employed in a higher salary band than others who are doing the same role, but don't have the same qualifications.

Additionally, can you do a postdoc of some sort? Or is that the sort of thing you have been applying for already?

Apologies if you've already done this sort of thing, I was just thinking that perhaps you need to have a bit of a rethink about career direction to get your confidence back and get some more work experience.

I can imagine it must be utterly disheartening to be in your situation, but there will be a job out there for you somewhere! Getting through a PhD requires determination and tenaciousness (if that's even a word!) so you must already have these qualities - and it will pay off in the end!! Best of luck.

My skills aren't of much value outside academia. Employers outside academia typically say I'm overqualified and lack commercial experience. Also there are virtually no non-academic jobs in my field where I live, and I can't move due to having a family and a mortgage (both of which rely on my partner's salary).

I've been applying for absolutely any academic job within an hour's drive of my home, without success. I haven't even had an interview, and have been rejected outright for every single one due to having insufficient publications. I can't magic up 4-6 publications as an unemployed PhD graduate... two perhaps, but not 4-6 :(

In order to get my call centre job I had to pretend I don't have qualifications; the job is soul destroying, and what's even more soul destroying is the knowledge that all of my hard work is so detrimental that I have to pretend I didn't do it. My life feels like an utter waste; I'm reduced to the level of those who didn't even get a GCSE :(

I don't think you can get away from the fact that academic life is inherently competitive. You won't be the first to have to write up papers from a PhD while pulling pints or stacking shelves.

If you haven't talked to the careers service at university about how to sell your PhD to non academic employers I recommend you do this immediately. Then you need to decide whether you want to stay in academia, or you want a non academic career. If you want the former, you will have to make yourself more competitive and attractive compared to your peers. Just accept that if you do, you are going to have to be prepared for constant rejection and knockbacks and still have the strength to keep hammering away.

If you want to move away, there are some good books and blogs about post academic life, and start preparing in a different way. Papers and citations are not important, but being able to focus on your transferable skills will be. I really recommend http://leavingacademia.blogspot.com/ or the book "So what are you going to do with that?" By Susan Basalla and Maggie Debelius.

Please don't feel that your life is a waste - getting a PhD is a huge achievement in itself, although I can understand why it doesn't feel like that at the moment. I have worked in a call centre myself (after my MRes - I also had to downplay my qualifications) so I know how utterly mind-numbing it can be. However, is there any possibility of promotion within the call centre? I totally understand that you don't want to be there for any longer than you have to, but I wonder if you gave yourself a goal within that job you may find it less demoralising? Additionally, you may acquire other skills, e.g. team leadership or management skills, that may help you in the future.

I wish I could give you more advice but it sounds like you are doing everything you can. I just hope you can see that it does not reflect on you or your abilities - you are clearly a hard-working, motivated person and you haven't done anything wrong. I don't know of any recent phd graduates who have 4-6 publications, so I'm not sure how anyone is expected to get a job based on that. I know this sounds trite, but don't give up, keep trying, and good luck.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but... you said you already had two publications, and you reckon you can get 2-3 more out of your thesis, so doesn't that take you to the magic 4-6?

If you're limited geographically then you need to make sure you are well known to your target unis. If it's a choice between you and another candidate with the same track record but who is known to them, they'll probably choose the other candidate. If your working hours permit, see if there are seminar series at target unis you could go to as an interested outsider. Once there you can get chatting to people who work there and make yourself known. If there's a relevant professional body, see if they have occasional local meetings you could attend if you can juggle your shifts around it. Ask people to bear you in mind if anything comes up in the future. Applying for advertised jobs is only one route - develop a rapport with someone who might be willing to write you in to a future project grant. Or once you have those publications under your belt, apply for fellowships (but make enquiries of eligibility sooner)

And do go to your careers service. I bet you have more marketable skills than you realise, and they will help you see this.

Hi Mlis,

Really sorry to hear this and I completely understand.

I am current third year phd and becoming increasingly worried about this myself. I have also considered quitting my phd because I am worried I will not find academic work and as a result find myself over-qualified for 'normal' jobs.

I definitely find myself starting to disagree with the recruitment of phd students. Universities need the students and the money but are they putting that ahead of the the student's needs? I have found that phd student recruitment needs to be more realistic in explaining to students how difficult it will be to get a job. Since I started my phd the world has changed drastically with economic recession and all sorts of problems which all makes it worse. You are definitely right in that it used to be that a phd student had a phd but now there are so many more expectations and demands on phd students to have teaching experience and to be published also. I think this is probably why many people with a phd choose to work elsewhere and leave academia.

What also worries me is that even if you get a job, many academic jobs are temporary and you have to proove yourself often for several years before you are given a permenant job.

Are you certain you want an academic career? Have you got any other work experience which you could take further? It may be that you continue your search as long as you can put your life on hold but you may eventually have to retrain or work else where. Before you graduated where you aware of the job market in academia?

I think the professor who said 'it's not my problem' sums up the issue and there needs to be a drastic change. Talented people are leaving academia and going elsewhere simply because there are no jobs and it is academia's loss. I hear someone say once things pick up there will be lots of jobs when the 'dead wood falls off' but who knows how long that will take.

I find myself, even just starting my third year, becomming increasingly realistic about this phd and I don't even think I will bother with conferences any more. I know it will be hard to get a job and I dont want to put my life on hold or work in temp positions for god knows how long, I also want to do other things.

Maybe you could try to find a research post somewhere, even if it is unrelated but it will still show your research skills, keep writing and keep up-to-date in your topic. I hope things pick up but it is hard to answer when they will!

Just noticed you said you had to pretend you had no qualifications - it is dreadful, isn't it? That this is what the world seems to have come to where hard work and qualifications mean nothing. Someone I know who has just an undergradate degree at honours level also only found work by removing it from their CV. I also know people close to completeing and what they say is to similar to you - overqualified for a lot of jobs but no luck with academia and they sound almost ashamed of their phd.

I know saying a phd is a huge achievement is no help right now because it is obviously irrelevant to you right now. But someone said to me, despite the lack of jobs would you want to be someone with no degree or no phd? And for me the answer was no!

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Ahhh Mlis, tell me about it!

I passed my viva just over a year ago, great feedback from examiners etc, and today I signed on for the first time in my life. I hadn't even been in the Jobs office before today. It was rather soul destroying. I was lucky enough that about 3 weeks after my viva I was starting a new job, as a part time lecturer, but it was ridiculous. I was teaching stuff to students, including MSc's, that I'd never even studied before; I had roughly 3 days to learn the topic and put together a lecture for it at the start. Then as the classes piled on the time ran out and I was working 15 hour days (edited to mention - working 15 hours, paid only for the 3 or so hours teaching I did that day...) just to keep up with the teaching, never mind attending all the meetings, supervisions etc that I had to do. I was told I'd be able to get another contract for this year (it was a series of semester-long contracts, so 4ish months at a time) but then just before Christmas it became clear that there wouldn't be money in the budget to renew my contract. I knew that it was a starting job, plenty of teaching experience but absolutely zero for research and no time to even write up from my phd, so I'm way behind on that. I was looking for other jobs the whole time last year, and have applied for many, mostly ones that I'm over qualified for, some that I'm underqualified for but desperate. One lecturing job I applied for had 90 other applicants, who all had several years post doc experience over me. I've been finding it nigh on impossible to get postdoc experience - only one funded advertised position which was before I even submitted, nothing last year...and before Christmas I began the process of emailing people I'd met before, cold-calling academics and people in government labs etc, and sending my CV out all over the place. Even doing this was depressing, and still no postdoc or funding opportunities have come up. Everyone has the same story - no money for postdocs, government reducing funding for research etc.
It's really really crap. I haven't got another job yet, I have some minor savings that I'm trying to live off in the hope that I'll get a job before having to go to the call centre, but it's just the most horrible experience. I feel very angry like I know many others do, at what feels like a lie that I was sold, go to uni, work hard, get a good job at the end, which obviously hasn't worked out that way. I've gone through the whole range of emotions, anger, resentment, envious of family/friends who are doing well, and I swear I'll punch the next person who says something will come up. So I totally know how you're feeling. I'm not sure what field you are in, but does the whole networking thing really work in your field? So far I've been still presenting my research at whatever conference I can afford to go to, usually just small local meetings, but it's getting my name known a bit better. I've also made a website to try and get my stuff a bit more accessible, and am considering writing articles for a local newspaper, to see if I can generate a bit of cash that way. Is this anything you can do? I know being restricted geographically can make things much more difficult, but there is online tutoring you can do - not great money, but still academic-ish a bit... - and depending on your field, doing some science in society stuff can really help.

I know it seems like a waste of time to have done the PhD by now, but still, we've done it, and we just have to make the most of it. But don't feel too alone in being peeved off about the whole thing and flailing around looking for a decent job, I'm right there with you!

I could not have put this better myself. I TOTALLY know how you're feeling algaequeen. I hope things pick up for us all soon but I'm not optimistic...

This thread has really struck a chord with me, too. Academia has always been challenging to develop a career in (as long as I've been interested in it, at least), and now it's almost impossible. I did everything right: good grades, glowing references, conferences, papers, abstracts... Little has come of it, as far as this country is concerned. I'm not the kind of person to put a damper on things, but it seems like universities are winding down somewhat...department closures, redundancies, supposed mergers, quite a few in financial difficulties... I know that if I was an established academic in this climate, I'd be staying put until I'm carried out of the doors in a stretcher.
I think that many of us are from the same generation and we were supposed to be the socially mobile cohort that had it all and could not fail: get good grades, do 'uni' and you're set for life. I consider it small recompense, that I'm not amongst the students paying up to £9, 000 per year for the privilege, let alone the £3, 000 per year prior to that. Sour grapes, I know.

It really is rather bleak at the moment, as far as I see it. I'm fortunate to have a job that relates to my PhD, but it's really underpaid for what it should be, with travel expenses making it almost unprofitable for me. The fact is, private sector employers can get away with it at the moment because there's such a surfeit of postgrads with MSc's and PhD's. In fact, my place of work can afford to be incredibly picky because of this.

I've probably mentioned this before, but (as I think Badhaircut pointed out) there are a lot of consultancies out there, particularly market research companies, that hire PhD grads with qual and/or quan skills. As I need to do, get yourself a profile on sites like Linkedin (sp?) and also register with specialist recruiters. The money may not often be very much, but it's a hull in which to weather the storm until things hopefully pick up for us.