Hi everyone,

I could need some advice concerning the UK PhD system. After a M.A. and a M.Ed. I received a Dr. phil. in Germany in the arts. I had to choose between a focus on art and art education, and was pushed to art education by my supervisor. As I was/am unhappy with that decision, I began writing a new thesis in art. Now university law has forbidden another Dr. phil., yet they say I can’t do a “habilitation” (Dr. habil.) as the formal requirement for a professorship/permanent position in art (art education would work).

It seems that I can do a PhD (not Dr. phil.) in Germany or somewhere else. But since there are no PhD programs in Germany in the subject, I am interested in the UK system. The thesis is already written in German under supervision. First of all, can I do a PhD with my background? And if positive, is it possible to translate it and adapt it to national/institutional standards (I would have to shorten it quite a bit), and to fast-track the PhD procedure? The only information I can find is that you should not exceed 3 years, but is there a general minimum limit? And can my current supervisor (professor) be part of the examination team?

I don’t need any funding and intend to keep on working at my current German university for the moment.

Thanks for your answers!

But how is a PhD different from a Dr. Phil, when PhD stands for Doctor of Philosophy?? Seems like the same thing to me?

You won't be able to translate your German thesis into English and then submit this for a PhD in the UK. A thesis is supposed to be an original piece of work.

To answer your other questions, even though they are probably moot now, you can do a PhD with your background, the minimum duration after which you can submit for a PhD is usually 2.75 years after enrolment.

Your current supervisor could not be part of your examination team because the examiner is supposed to be someone independent.

I think you need to rethink your options.

Thanks for your answer.

In Germany we have about 50 different doctorates: Dr. phil. for arts, education, social sciences etc., Dr. jur. for law, Dr. rer. nat. for natural sciences and so on. I could do a doctorate with another speciality, but not another Dr. phil. The PhD is a different degree in terms of university law, and there are several academics who possess a Dr. phil. and a PhD from another country. So, according to German law the PhD is permitted. And if I understand you correctly, I could do a PhD in the UK according to their customs.

The thesis is not published yet, so it is still an original piece of work. I also would have to cut some material and would add new information in consultation with the new British supervisor.

Concerning the original work: I have read a PhD thesis published by the intended institution and the candidate has published several articles and book chapters. The thesis then has been about 50 pages with a huge appendix. That would mean that there are cumulative approaches, right?

Ok I understand the difference better now.

I still don't think you will be able to use your thesis material for a PhD in the UK. It doesn't work like that. You are supposed to be doing research for ~3 years full time. Your supervisor expects to work with you on this, not receive a subset of something you have already done.

You can do a completely different subject or topic for a PhD though.

Some people do a PhD by publication, where you do just submit articles and then top and tail the thesis with an intro and discussion. These are rarer though, and usually reserved for academics who have had a longish career but didn't have a PhD initially. This may be an option for you if you have publications like this.

TreeofLife is right on this. The UK is not like Germany and there are multiple checks and balances built into the system which would make want you want to do next to impossible. Any supervisor who couldn't see the progress of the actual research is going to be very suspicious about whether its your own work (and the multiple plagiarism scandals in German PhDs have been widely reported here). You are not allowed to have had substantial contact with your external examiner, so again TofL is correct to say he/she couldn't be the external.

Wouldn't it be easier just to go to Austria? They seem to accept PhDs without attendance or lengthy registrations and you wouldn't need to translate it then either. Or given how much regulations vary between the Laender are you sure there are no German universities that would allow you to do what you want in terms of a habil?

No, that's no alternative since all institutions in Austria and Switzerland only offer graduate schools with regular taught courses. And concerning the habil: it might be possible to enroll at other institutions but it's a highly political and therefore risky agenda without the right preconditions. And I don't want to start a 5+ years project without a good chance of success.

But I just got a reply from the UK institute that complies with TreeofLife's statements. You're right that I can't submit a finished thesis. But apparently it is possible to do a PhD by publication which would be a 1 year course and I could keep my subject. I would just have to publish my thesis publicly, which is no problem since I already have a book contract, and suppose that I should write some journal articles or book chapters. Although I don't know how they want to evaluate my book if it is written in German...

Seems that I should look up the formal criteria of this type of PhD procedure. Thanks again!

had heard the humanities departments in Germany were still far from meritocratic in their hiring processes but hadn't realised the patronage problem was still that bad. It's got a bit better in the social sciences. What you are trying to do sounds less insane if your only real chance is in this particular department. I know Switzerland now offers good graduate school training but are you sure about Austria? I know of two acquaintances who've recently gained PhDs while living in different countries entirely - one never even met the 'supervisor'.

On what this UK university has told you - what they are offering sounds so dodgy that I would strongly advise checking whether it is accredited in the UK. There are some very dubious outfits around, some of which have credible websites, but if the 'PhD' is actually awarded by a dubious US private college, as is sometimes the case, it's very unlikely to be recognised in Germany subsequently. PhDs by publication normally require a series of proper double blind peer reviewed journal articles in journal with decent impact factors - a process which would take usually longer than a year given the slow review times in many humanities journals, and I really would be surprised if they were allowed to be in German because then the university couldn't guarantee the integrity of the exam process.

There are only 3 universities in Austria that offer PhDs in my discipline and all of them are graduate schools. The same applies to both universities in Switzerland that would be an alternative.

Concerning the PhD by publication: What I was trying to say is that one way would be to publish the book and then start writing journal articles in English on that basis, but of course also extending my previous work. Getting them published would take some time, I agree. Then, as I understand it from several sources, after publication I could apply to a university, and within 12 months I would have to produce a portfolio, a literature review etc. with the help of the supervisor who would also prepare me for the viva.

This PhD approach would work with my current academic job and therefore I wouldn't mind if it took 2-3 years. That's kind of like the approach your acquaintances did in Austria, only not with a thesis but on a journal basis. Hmm, I'll think about it.