Hi all,

I was hoping for some advice. Having battle to survive 3 years of 4 of my PhD, it's clear it's a bust. There is a slim chance I'll leave with an MPhil, but there's a good chance I'll leave with nothing.

My concern is I want to remain in academics, research assistant stuff mostly, but I'm really concerned about approaching employers with a 3/4 year employment 'gap', or claiming some PhD experience, but ultimately having to explain having failed a PhD. I feel that, any way I dress it up, I'm someone that didn't have what it took to do a PhD, and that's clearly not someone anyone in the field would want to employ. Why waste the chance on someone that tried and failed, right? I certainly can't see myself getting another shot at a PhD, which I'd love to do, I've just had a rough time at my current institution(UK)/poor health. I just keep coming back to employers won't at all find me desirable if I've been ill/might be ill again/am a failure. For the record, I don't think I'm a failure, I think it went /wrong/. I'm just worried about how it'll be perceived by others and impact my future.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

hello, you need to step out of the "poor me, bad is me" syndrome.

You will need to move on with your life. Everybody has failed or almost failed ventures in life. The next thing to do is to work out how you will write your CV explaining employment gaps, and STOP THINKING that nobody will employ you.

If you continue to think like that, it won't be nice because your thoughts shape your future, lots of famous people have said this, please change the direction of your thoughts first, then continue your PhD, or whatever is left, and please, please move on.

love satchi

Hi Satchi,

Thanks for the reply. I tried to make it clear I wasn't feeling 'poor me' at all. Obviously there is some regret, but honestly, I accept that it just went wrong and I'm very much looking to move on. My concern is the perceptions of others, the stigma. I'm trying to find others who have had similar experiences, or second-hand knowledge of such circumstances, who might advise me on ways to construe a 'failed' PhD to someone.

I very much accept that I wasn't prepared for a PhD, but that's not a reflection of me, but 'me at the time'. Again, my concern is that when potential employers in the research domain/future PhD admissions learn that I've tried and not succeeded at a PhD before, I'll be at a disadvantage. Instrumentally, in what way can I say 'I got 3 years into this and realised it wasn't for me' without it seeming a bit dubious I took 3 years to figure that out. CVs and applications have to be succinct and positive, which rules out a full, fair and proper explanation of why things didn't work out.

What's happened has happened, but you can still put a positive spin on the situation. To be honest if you're talking about finding a job or future study, whilst your academic achievements is important, what's equally as important is how you sell yourself. Forget about the failure - what have you learned in the process? How have you matured in your outlook? How does this benefit your future job? Just don't ask for a reference from your supervisor.

Also, when it comes to getting a job in the industry, passing professional exams and being professionally licensed are far more important for getting ahead than having a PhD. If you are a qualified engineer or accountant nobody is going to care whether your experiments failed or not.

At the end of the day a PhD is icing on the cake if you have secured the time and funds to do it, but you're making it sounds as if nobody can get a job without a PhD.

Thanks for the reply Mountain.

I'm mostly looking for advice on *how* to spin it, or peoples actual experiences of dealing with this sort of thing. Certainly, drawing on what I've gained is a strategy. I should have been clearer that my field is psychology - there is generally very little I can do without a PhD, as everything takes some sort of extra qualification. Where psychologists would go into therapy of human resources or such careers, we've been hedge out by the specialisation of degree courses to be more vocation i.e. BA Counselling, BA Human Resources, which will come with those professional accreditations you mention. Without some retraining (which might be an option), my degree and skills are pretty much limited to 'psychological research'. Again, I'm worried about scenarios where people might think 'he couldn't handle his own research, why should we trust him with assisting ours'. Obviously what I've gained from doing a PhD (with a general RA post attached) is that I learned I prefer to assist than to do myself, which is something I should leverage.

I'm over not finishing a PhD. I'm ok with it. My concern is that others who look at my CV, see 3 years spent doing a PhD, and not succeeding aren't going to simply overlook it, but take it as a reflection of my competence and character, and having it held against me. Another reason I posted is because I wanted some actual experience of this situation, where people have either seen this as an issue, or hopefully, where it's been dealt with e.g. second attempts at PhDs/Research careers after an incomplete PhD.

As a side note, my supervisor would actually give me a reference, as an assistant which is good I guess.

I wonder if arranging an interview with a careers advisor might be a good idea to get an outsider's perspective? I think, as others have already suggested, that you are painting yourself into a corner with your belief that the only thing you can do is to be a research assistant. If you are surrounded by people who only know about academic careers, it's far too easy to get trapped into the thinking that that's all there is. Maybe retraining might be needed, but my gut feeling is that you might be dismissing lots of interesting possibilities unknowingly. I think if I was you, I'd want to get out of the university setting for a bit / for good and prove myself in a different environment to improve my confidence too.

hi again, I think you are ok then, you just need to get over your stigma. Others may be better at writing advice for you on this. If you say it took 3 years to figure it out, 3 years is NOT a long time. Do you know those yogis, they sit in meditation for years and years! So what is 3 years? :-)

Life is still ahead of you, everyday when you wake up, think of one GOOD quality that you have, and say it out LOUD to yourself.

I would like to say this to you with all my heart -- don't be so hard on yourself.

I promise you it will get better in time.
love satchi

Hi there,

For what is is worth I am in exactly the same position as yourself - health, personal and funding problems all combined with a bad project to mean I will either leave with an MPhil or nothing. It's a rough position to be in but remember that so long as you aren't applying for academic jobs your time in the PhD won't truly be considered unemployment - dress it up in your CV with the work you've done. I've found the best way to build up confidence again is to start applying for jobs and attending careers events as soon as you can. In interviews just say the PhD was not for you and you';re enthusiastic about entering the world of work instead while retaining your experience. :)

I wouldn't think it is a big deal, don't mention the PhD at all, put it in your CV as an RA post, which is not far from the truth.

Good luck

Cuagan,

Sorry to hear.

I pick up on your comment you feel you wern't prepared going into the PhD. I'll answer that by saying no-one knows how to do a PhD until they have done one.

You also comment on it going wrong. How did it go wrong? Was it a viable project to begin with? If viable, what happened that stopped the project being viable? Did it transpire later the project wasn't viable? Could you have done things differently? Could others have acted differently in supporting the project?

In asking these questions you can build a case as to what you have learnt from you PhD attempt and what you would do differently to make a future project a success. This can include your approach, your interactions with others, your approach to methodology and experimental design, etc., so you can present yourself in a more positive light in interview.

You want to remain in an academic environment, thus I would present this PhD as PenPen suggests as not being for you. Don't say PhDs in general are not for you, as you may in future have the opportunity to study a PhD part-time alongside a future Research Assistant position.

I note Dr. Jeckel's comment on not mentioning it was a PhD attempt, rather an Research Assistant position. It's a sentiment I understand as I know it has been suggested elsewhere that leaving a Phd (successful or otherwise) off a CV can make a job candidate seem less overqualified. However, I'm wary of such a claim as whilst some will be understanding of this position if they later find out, it can also be seen as dishonesty by others.

Ian