Hi Guys,

Just started a phd this week and it has not gone well. I've been ignored pretty hard by my supervisor and department, the uni staff have been very hostile and rude and I'm really not sure I want to be here anymore.

I'm of course interested in the research, but I just don't think I can hack three years with a bad university. The room full of phd students look exhausted and depressed, which is also very discouraging.

It also raises the wider issue, and I see this gets discussed a lot on here. Is there any point if there's no position for you afterwards? I'm working in agricultural science, and a cursory glance online at academic and postdoc jobs have not shown up one that a graduate in my area could get into. I have an MSc already, it was very difficult to find work after it, and all I got was voluntary stuff etc. I suppose I'm just envisioning more of the same really.

I could just leave on monday and it wouldn't be like leaving a phd, because really I never started.

Any comments plenty appreciated

Wow...I feel a bit sorry for the people in your department that you would make such a snap decision...

I wouldn't judge a whole department and university on one week. It may be that it's a time when everyone has tight deadlines they are trying to meet. I would never leave something unless I gave it a good couple of months. Yes, finding a job afterwards may be hard, but as you say it was hard without a PhD too, that's just the job market at the moment. If you really love your subject it will be worth it, if you don't then have a think about what you really want.

I wouldnt think too much about what people post on here about not finding jobs. The people that post on here are a particular kind of PhD student, most likely ones that need outside support and have some sort of issue. Many people don't use forums. And lot's of people in my department got something immediately after graduating, or before (Sociology), not many got a post-doc, but all got sth to tide them over til they found sth better. So don't make a decision because of the negativity (at times) on here.

Also it's no good to make a decision so quickly. I thought my dep was great, it took me a whole semester to find out it was crap. Give it a few months.

Do you have another hustle to fall into immediately? I've thought of quitting, but the reality is I would be immediately unemployed with no clear plan. Are you funded? If so, I'd stay. If not, it's a more complex issue.

I almost thought you might be at the same department where I did my PhD when I started reading your post, but your field is totally different.

I had the same issue. But decided to stay. I hated the people I had to work around, and got very depressed - mood rollercoasters (swing would be took soft a word), stopped eating etc but did finish in 3 years, which is faster than most people in the dept that are still there. But I am now unemployed. I have been for 11 months and only found out at the 9 month mark that my ex-supervisor was giving me crappy references to go with my job applications. So that's basically a whole year down the toilet.

Also I think you're being smart by thinking ahead with the uncertainty with jobs available after a phd. I am looking at retraining now. I'm not cut out for academia. It's alot to do with who you know, and my ex-supervisor hates me lol...so I'm re-evaluating my options. Being around a negative environment has a huge impact on you too.

Sometimes you just know when something isn't right for you, and it sounds like you already know. If you can find another similar university/department but with nicer people, you'll be much happier.

PhD is a test of endurance, they said. Only with the hindsight I can fully appreciate the true meaning of this cliche phrase, but before I start my rant, please let me say this @PhDefault: what an utterly wicked and soul destroying individual is that ex-supervisor of yours! I mean, what's wrong with them people? Anyway, mattie, I'd join the latter advice - if it looks like a dog, if it talks like a dog, it's a dog. However, if you want & most importantly can physically, emotionally and financially spend n numbers of years of living in the constant uphill struggle mode, then stay.

Wow, as a long term poster I guess I should quit my PhD now, as I've clearly got too many issues and no hope of getting a real job... :P

But yes, I agree with the rest of your post.

I know, right? She turned out to be quite the two-faced heartless witch. It was a shock that someone could stoop as low as she has.

She also seems to have this weird hold over other academics, I was finally told about the crappy references over the phone because they (real life quote) "didn't want to write it down" lol. I guess that person must've felt sorry enough to tell me. At least I know now!

You could ask what you have done wrong to justify his views about you in these references. If he thought badly of you, why has he even agreed to give a reference?

Can you show that the comments made by your ex-supervisor are without foundation, untruthful or inaccurate? You may have a case against him for defamation or negligence depending upon what has been said (if you can access this information).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3065319.stm

Ian

There are plenty of PhD students on this forum who can't get jobs and its not because they have issues.

I don't have any issues (strong references, plenty of volunteer experience, pro-bono consultancy experience, teaching experience etc) and I'm struggling like everyone else, it's the employment market and learning how to effectively market ourselves, which takes heaps of time, alongside building strong connections. I have teaching contracts to tie me over, but nothing permanent or long term which is the situation for many.

Mattie,

I'll put it to you this way, at the university I work/study at, a lecturing (tenure) gig came up and plenty of internal candidates, strong internal candidates that were on contracts with the university, had excellent publication records, research records etc applied. Most of them didn't even get short listed despite working in that department, and an external candidate was hired!

Unemployment is a factor with PhD study, you will not be guaranteed a job coming out. If that's why you are doing a PhD, for a job, stop. I didn't do a PhD to get a good job at the end, I did it because I wanted to learn, and I don't regret it even though I've made the decision I won't be staying in Academia. It was something I needed to do for myself.

As others have suggested, give it a bit of time. It takes a while to settle in, and you've started at an odd time of year (are you North or Southern Hemisphere?) Either way, it's not the best time to start as you're either right in the middle of first semester, or at the end of second semester coming up to summer.

This blog (http://100rsns.blogspot.co.uk/) is an attempt to offer those considering graduate school some good reasons to do something else. Its focus is on the humanities and social sciences. The full list of 100 reasons will be posted in time.

This blog (http://facciani.weebly.com/blog/one-hundred-reasons-why-you-should-go-to-graduate-school) is entitled One hundred reasons why YOU SHOULD go to graduate school, but a cursor glance suggests it is actually a just list countering each item in the blog above. I've found it hard to find a good long list why you SHOULD do a PhD.

A google search on "100 reasons to go to graduate school" mostly brings up "100 reasons NOT to go to graduate school" but a search on "reasons to go to graduate school" brings up http://www.idealist.org/info/GradEducation/GoodReasons. Maybe this is because those who just are getting on with it have no reason to discuss why they are.

However, I think it is very hard for people to be objective. In my experience those who are doing a PhD and are fighting and keen to continue can miss the flaws in any of the reasons/arguments to DO a PhD and those who are really struggling and having doubts can miss the flaws in any of the reasons/arguments to NOT DO a PhD.

Therefore on the whole, for the particular case of doing a PhD, I think if one were bound to be unwittingly biased I think being biased to NOT doing a PhD is probably preferable and if one were bound to unwittingly have an unbalanced attitude then cynicism is probably preferable to 'over optimism'. We can never know the alternative future, but on the whole I think the damage/loss from doing a PhD when we 'should not' could be much greater than the damage/loss from not doing a PhD when we 'should'.

Therefore, my recommendation is to read http://100rsns.blogspot.co.uk/ I think despite its bias it is well written and quite full. Decide in your own mind what of it you think is probably reasonable and true and what of it you think may be cynicism or written by weak minded people, then if you still have a passion and determination and think you are robust enough to stand on your own, go for it and try hard to enjoy it.

Hope this helps.