======= Date Modified 18 Feb 2011 09:54:29 =======
Dear moderators,

I do not know specifically, what the rules are for removing posts or banning posters. I do know that spammers sometimes get banned and spams get removed because in some way they violate the peace of the place and the protocols around it.

The poster by the name of 'Cleverclogs' has, in the past, usually to a funny effect trolled on this forum. But I am sure there is a difference between disrupting threads with non sequitur after non sequitur and brazenly, without humanitarianism or sympathy, coming down on a vulnerable person like a ton of bricks? A person who is an important part of this forum, and who is battling an entire range of medical conditions and a depressingly stressful situation at work, through absolutely no fault of her own, is being attacked by this poster. Also, how is this different from online bullying? Online bullying is often anonymous, as we are here. I just looked up some research with online bullying, and this seems to be way beyond that as well.

Perhaps this merits some action of some sort? Just sharing a thought.

best,

Bug.

oh I feel so out of it, I've very briefly read KB's thread and have to agree with you Bug, CC is "way out of order" as my chavvy sister in law would say.

On another note, I had to look up non sequitur and I still don't know what it means :$

To be honest, I enjoy clogs posts, and the resulting reactions and debate :$

As a lurker most of the time, the number of "platitude posts" can be a little tiresome, though I would concede clogs plays the devils advocate maybe a little too enthusiastically sometimes.

The number of people backing up the person in the thread in question does not tally with bullying I think, the supportive posts outnumber the non-supportive by some margin. And the person in question wrote a very strong and effective retort to back up her point.

There should be a zero tolerance of bullying on this ( or any) internet site....Bullying is invidious and nasty--this forum has been refreshingly free of it compared to most BB websites....hate to see it get taken down that path. Its a wonderful resource for people doing post grad work and post post grad work! I do hope the mods pay close attention to some of the developing ( and surely unwelcomed!) dynamics on here...

BB?

BB - according to wikipedia is some sort of ammunition.
gosh i hope not... i mean i know CC is bad but I don't think violence solves anything ;-)

Be interested in the response from the mods, sometimes CC is mildly amusing, sometimes "he" oversteps the mark.. this time he trampled over it with his pants round his ankles. However, KB was awesome in her response...

Good post Bug.

Chuff

I hope the moderators don't take your suggestion seriously 'Bug_the_pug'. The comment by Cleverclogs was harsh, but I am sure 'Keenbean' is quite capable of ignoring it. Once you start censoring posts just because they might hurt someone where do you draw the line. Should only supportive posts be aloud? Could a critical post not help someone by making them realise they are wallowing in self pity?

Personally unless a reply is slanderous, downright rude, uses offensive language or is an advert then it should be allowed, however hurt someone may feel. PhD's are difficult. I'm sure we have all felt sensitive at times, but one thing I have learnt about doing research is that you have to develop a thick skin and take criticism on the chin.

======= Date Modified 18 Feb 2011 16:28:36 =======
======= Date Modified 18 Feb 2011 16:26:31 =======
There is all the difference in the world between criticism and trolling.
And frankly, anyone who thinks that they can offer constructive criticism in a thread that does not ask for it is a bit off the mark...unsolicited "advice" -well, I am sure we all know the saying about that. If someone does not like a thread or the replies within it, then move on. There are lots of other threads. Or even the option to create their own thread vibrant to their own liking!
A well worn aphorism, but true, nonetheless, "If you don't have something nice to say, do not say it."
There is even a skill to delivering "criticism"--if it is meant to be constructive and productive.

And if comments are offered for any reason besides that, I would really question whether they belong on this forum at all, and the motives for them being posted.

PS--sorry for confusion--BB is an abbreviation for Bulletin Board---the style of internet posting that we have here in this forum for instance!

PPS--recalls the not so long ago days of the trout recipes. Have we gone back to that? Hmmm...
*starts dusting off some old favs"

:p

Well I guess I should comment on this since I'm at the centre of it. I absolutely do not believe that the sort of post CC made was acceptable by anyone's standards. And no, I am not that thick-skinned that things like that bounce off me- I found it incredibly offensive and downright insulting, which only adds to the difficulties I am experiencing already. That vicious type of post will never help anyone to just 'bounce back' and is actually extremely dangerous in respect to people who are already very vulnerable. Luckily I am tough enough to stand up for myself and put up a fight, but not everyone would feel able to. I can appreciate that it is okay to have differences in opinion and share those on the forum, but it is never okay to be so disrespectful and make so many incorrect and vile assumptions about a person. Only very bitter and narrow-minded people resort to this in my view. In fact, if you look at the posts left by CC, none of them are actually remotely relevant to the original post- it is just a vicious and aggressive attack based on absolutely nothing. and the same poster was also abusive to a number of other people last week. If this bullying is allowed to continue then I will not remain a member of this forum on principle, although I would be very sad because I have enjoyed being a part of it for the last couple of years. I agree that some of CC's comments are slightly more lighthearted and vaguely humorous, but this latest lot are a disgrace. I suppose there is some reason behind such appalling behaviour, but being at the brunt of it I can't find it in myself to be very sympathetic, no matter what the cause. Bullying is bullying, and CC has shown himself to have a very ugly personality. Many more people on the forum have thankfully shown themselves to be decent follk who will stand up for something they believe in, which gives me some of my faith back. Thanks to all of those people. I personally will not be returning to this site now until this has been dealt with, and will ask a couple of my trusted forum buddies to email me when that is the case. Best wishes all, and thanks for your support. KB

Well keenbean, you're reacting to me the same way you're reacting to your supervisor. Learn to accept criticism and try to countenance the possibility that your supervisor may have a point. There is no rule in the PhD Life forum that we should always agree with the student, nor is there a rule that states students must always be viewed as victims and supervisors as heartless aggressors. Sometimes the truth hurts.

The way I look at it is this.

A forum is a place for debate, i.e., differing opinions. If someone takes such offence at an anonymous internet post then that says it all to me. Yes PHD land is a selfish place and breeds self-obsession but people need to get over it.

Having such problems with a supervisor, in my opinion, says as much about the student as the supervisor. Its a two way street.

And yet again, there is all the difference in the world between debate and trolling.
I can ( and do) disagree with friends, family and colleagues from time to time. The disagreement is never stated in personal insult language. A disagreement can be had without invalidating the other person's point of view, let alone any sort of attack upon the person.

Something along the lines of "I can see where you are coming from, but I disagree. My point of view is that--" allows a respectful debate to ensue. Debate, is, after all, an exchange of opinions, and has to allow room for both sides to express what their opinion is in order for there to BE a debate.

Simply trying to shut one side down is not a debate. Any one who thinks that is not well informed about what a debate is, and perhaps is lacking in the linguistic acuity to engage in debate. As well, debating takes confidence--where one is not threatened by the existence of some information or opinion that does not tally with one's own.

Some forums are about debate--or try to be. Try any of the news forums, political forums, etc, that abound on the web. Then again, if you find any true debate, as opposed to flame and bait, lottsa luck!

People on here seem to confuse flame and bait with debate....


As for offering "detached emotional analysis"--one, was it called for or requested by the OP? If not, its out of line. Secondly, do you have professional or other qualifications that permit you to give such analysis? If so, why are you doing it here, instead of in your profession or other work??

If people want to demonstrate their "debating" skills ( or at least try to sort them out from personal insults, flame and bait) why not set up a thread for debating? Topic of your choice. I will be glad to meet you there. :D And please do not be too surprised if I win--it is after all my bread and butter to win arguments. So all of you eager for debate--set up your thread, send me a PM and let's go. Keep debate where it belongs, and keep it separate from flame and bait.

KB I am sorry to see you go, and I do hope the mods sort this before what has been a wonderfully informative and supportive forum collapses from trolls and trolling.

OMG are all the mods off on a jolly this week? No repsonse whatsover, hmmm, perhaps they are eating ice-cram on Brighton Pier or something.

My, my things have changed around here, this would never have happend a couple of years ago, or even a year ago. And what with all those lucrative advertising deals to support with hits and contributions from the likes of us wise and civilised forum regulars - the community that makes this space what it is... remember... You don't want to let us be bullied out of it, or just plan bored and frustrated by a hyperactive troller.

This is not a good time to be looking for a new job, mods, so I'd keep this golden goose you have here in ship shape if I were you and get it sorted.