======= Date Modified 01 Jun 2011 15:11:35 =======
Dear all

I have just submitted some write-up for the upgrade and I have just looked at the upgrade form, one of the sections asking about the relationship between student and the supervisor (supervisor will be asked to leave during this part of the upgrade meeting).

My relationship with my supervisor definitely is not good - which is not uncommon as I have seen many other people posting about the same issue.


There is a chance that I will not be gaining a PhD, largely due to my supervisor's unreasonable behaviour. For example, he wants me to do more experiments for my PhD and extend my study period without considering whether I can afford to pay for the extra fees etc. More importantly, he wants me to follow exactly the way that he wants to do it and not based on any research.

I was hoping to get at least an MPhil if our relationship fall out before completing the study.

I was wondering if I'm being honest and tell them our relationship is not good, is that going to affect my upgrade?

Anyone has similar experience before?

That depends on the politics of your dept and how "important" your supervisor is within it! It should be clear within the dept what your supervisor is like but it depends on how willing they are to do something about his behaviour!  Most just want to sweep it under the carpet and pretend it doesn't happen as long as he is bringing in the research credentials/money!

I shouldn't think that your relationship with your supervisor should affect your upgrade after all it is determining whether your research is upto PhD standard.  But I would tread carefully on this as academics tend to close ranks and protect their own unless you have a very good reason (or make an official complaint!) but this also depends on your dept so it is hard for anyone else to say what to do.  I would suggest being diplomatic about it so that nobody is put in an awkward position but make it clear that there are issues but don't make it personal. Don't let your supervisor bully you into using his methods as you have to justify your methodology and results at the end so "because my supervisor said so" is not a good answer!  As long as you can you show that your research is original (doesn't have to be the whole thing but it has to show some original thinking and contribution to your research field) and that you have a robust methodology you should be fine. 

Don't also let him treat you like a lab slave getting you to do all the extra experiments he wants.  You can never have enough for some supervisors! Have you got a second supervisor or an external one that you can get a second opinion to make sure you have enough results?  I think half of doing a PhD is being able to manage your supervisor and keep difficult ones in check.  It's especially hard when you've got a domineering one like yours who just wants everything his way without regard to you!  I would suggesting standing your ground as you are supposed to be doing independent research guided by your supervisor which doesn't happen alot of the time!

Don't accept an MPhil as you were accepted to do a PhD although many places register you as an MPhil initially so if you decide not to continue it doesn't look so bad as they won't be losing a PhD student (looks bad for dept!) You can still get a PhD without your supervisor if the relationship doesn't work as long as you have a good project and put the work in!  Obviously it'll be much easier if he helps you and supports/reads your work but unfortunately that is a luxury some can only dream of!  It should make you more determined to get through it and show him up especially that you can manage even without him though I hope this won't be the case! 

Good luck and let us know how you get on!
(up)

Thanks doodles! Your comments are extremely true- especially this " because my supervisor said so" is not a good answer".

I had rather intense argument with him because he keeps asking me to change something without a valid research reason.
More importantly, when things went wrong, he actually BLAME me for taking his advice! That particular argument was really quite "heat" as I told him I have better methodology and supported with previous research. I showed him those research paper and he told me all this research are rubbish and insisted want to use his way. I told him i won't be able to justify it in my writing, then he said "you just have to find papers that using this method"! how unreasonable it is!

I suppose my supervisor will always be one of the main markers of my thesis? Even if I insisted to use my own way and supported by other research, he could still argue those papers that I cited are rubbish?

I think only two people will be reading the final thesis, my supervisor and an external examiner? Correct me if I'm wrong!

======= Date Modified 01 Jun 2011 16:58:41 =======
That sounds just like my supervisor!!!! I could have written it!  My supervisor was trying to get me to change a method so after checking with other people about whether this was possible as they are also one of these people that never explain themselves!  I decided to test this method they suggested and then got told to stop it as if their way was the only one!  They always change their mind as well as I also got the blame for not doing enough of another method as I was following a suggestion which they thought was possible so I could hardly say well it was your suggestion as I am supposed to be an independent researcher! I gave up trying their suggestions after that unless it made sense! 

As for marking your thesis it's up to your external (mostly) and your internal examiners to judge it based on your rationale/reason for doing your research, methodology, results, analyses to see that you have added new research to your field.  It has nothing to do with your supervisor who is supposed to guide you along the way although this may not sometimes happen!  Your supervisor is supposed to read it and support you through the process as it's research training but they have no final say in the viva and don't even have to be there (it's up to to you and they can't have an input if they are there!) It's just awkward if you disagree with your supervisor given his personality and don't follow his every whim but has no consequence for you!

It's ridiculous these supervisors who are so far up their backside they can't see what is going on! I actually got praised for my robust methodology as I justified everything I was doing. I wouldn't have done if my supervisor had got their way as they kept saying you don't need to do that or this - it's just rough (easy for them to say as they are not the ones doing it)

So don't worry as long you are methodological and can justify what you do you should be fine!
;-) (up)

ahh...that's clearer now. I thought supervisors are always the internal examiners but it does not seem to be the case.
My supervisor always say "if you want to do it your way, you will fail your PhD". I thought he has full control whether
he wants to pass me!!!

But my case would be much tricky as I'm partially funded by my supervisor, he makes it clear that if I don't follow his way, he will stop funding me.

Thanks doodle for your advice. It's very very helpful!

That's a scary thought having your supervisor mark your thesis!!!! I'm not sure I'd have passed!!!! The internal is somebody from your dept usually who is there to make sure that the regulations of the uni are followed and should be independent from your supervisory team so they are not biased!

It just sounds like your supervisor has either a big ego, is a control freak or a bit of both! Don't take too much notice of such comments "If you don't do it my way, you will fail!" as that is just him letting off steam and very unprofessional! My supervisor was always giving off similar comments though probably not quite as blunt as they didn't want it to reflect badly on them if I failed! But still not very helpful nevertheless!

I'm sorry to hear that he holds some of the purse strings so that is rather tough on you. I hope you can find an acceptable solution to your methodological differences and other problems. That just giving him too much power which seems to have gone to his head! :-s

Hang in there and show them you can do it! You've got to grab that PhD! 8-)

Let us know how you get on. Good luck (up)

Thanks doodle :-)

I have some questions about the thesis submission. Assuming i want to complete the whole PhD by the end of 2012, when do I normally submit the thesis in?

Can I assume I have to submit it around September, then wait for 1-2 months for the viva, and a month for correction (assuming no major thing to change)? Or should I submit before Sept that so that I can complete the whole PhD on time?
Also, can I assume there won't be any viva after correction? Or do I have to go through the whole process again?

I can't afford to extend the Phd so I really want to finish on time, I'm not very sure how long I can put up with my supervisor.

======= Date Modified 01 Jun 2011 22:15:00 =======
Theoretically it's possible though it's rather a tight timetable!  It's good you are planning to finish on time and get rid of your supervisor which will be the best thing ever!!!  I hope everything goes to plan as you know experiments sometimes develop a life of their own.  It's also a good idea to start writing early as it's unbelievable how long it takes to write!  Don't underestimate the time it takes.  It doesn't matter if you don't use all of what you write now,  at least you'll have some material you can use for the thesis.  Straightforward chapters like the methodology which hopefully you'll sort out soon and other descriptive chapters (e.g. literature review, introduction) would be good places to start before you get into the results and analyses later on.

Most unis aim to have a viva within 3 months of submission so if you submit by the end of August/start of Sept you should have enough time for the process to work itself out.  However there are other factors that may affect when you get a viva like when your external examiner is free and what commitments they may have. In some unusual cases I have heard that it took 6 months for students to get a viva as their external was very busy and couldn't take time out during the academic year. 

Usually you don't get another viva after your corrections unless you've had to substantially change your thesis or do more research. 

THANKS FOR THE GREAT ADVICE, DOODLE!!!!
You have given me some hope for my PhD!! I can't thank you enough!!

You're welcome. I'm glad to have helped! You can do it! You need to work on managing your supervisor next! Good luck with it all :p (up)