Hi all,

I am a first year PhD student at a university in the US. I know that most of the users here are in the UK/EU, but since I saw quite a few people having problems similar to mine and the reponses seem pretty supportive, I decided to post here. I think PhD students go through the same thing, no matter where you are.

Well, I started my PhD program last September. It seemed like an obviously good decision at the time. The PhD provides full funding and the school is one of the most prestigious in the US. But less than a year into it, I'm seriously contemplating quitting after this semester. I just can't see myself continuing in the program for 3-5 more years.

1. I came in full of life, extremely sociable, and very ambitious. Now the isolation of a PhD life has turned me into a recluse. I find myself avoiding people, anti-social, and depressed all the time. Sometimes I am so depressed that it's very hard to even get through the day. I feel that the loneliness and lack of any meaningful social outlet is tearing me apart inside. At first, I tried to network with everybody and even organized social events. But eventually I got tired because people started giving me a suspicious attitude that basically said: "If you are so social, what the hell did you come here for?" A few even asked me why I didn't go for a business degree instead, suggesting that I didn't belong here, just because I am a little bit more normal than they are. And they started avoiding me. I'm already depressed and anti-social. I don't know what kind of a person I will turn into if I persist in this emotionally dysfunctional environment for 3 or 4 more years. Part of me is telling myself that as a self-responsible person I can't let this go on.

2. The aimless nature of a PhD program. Everything I did before in each major stage of my life had a purpose: in high school, I worked hard in order to go to a good university, in undergrad, I worked even harder because I wanted a high GPA so I could get a good job or go to a good grad school. There was a tangible goal at the end of it. It was even more so during the few years I spent working in the private sector before starting the PhD: you had to produce and your work must lead to results, otherwise you did't belong on the job anymore. Now I am feeling that 90% of the things I do have no purpose whatsoever, not knowing when I am going to graduate and whether I'll even land a job at all. I'm just studying for its own sake. I'm not feeling motivated at all.

3. I feel that as long as I remain in this program, my life will be on hold. Many of my friends have gotten married, some have kids, and most are enjoying pretty interesting careers. While here I am, living this aimless, lonely, depressed, and poor life of a PhD student.

I've told a few people I trust about my desire to quit. But they all think I'm crazy because of the prestige of the school and the current job market. But I just can't let this go on anymore.

A quick response, in a rush..

1) Social life. Face it, a PhD is necessarily a solitary journey, more for some, less for some. For the first you are not in it 'together', every project is different. Talk to the other students, discuss supervisory styles, discuss predicaments. The market, the solitude, the uncertainty, the feelings of being drowned in an aimless mass of something something called academia is not a feeling you have alone. We all do. We all have dreadful days, weeks, months, phases. And then, it's clear. It's a process which is more painful for some than for others. Trust me, I go through this all the time.

2) Tangible targets. I've realised over the first yr (I started in Sept last yr) that all along in taught courses our 'targets' were defined by the system (to top a class, to get an A, to graduate). Now, for the first time, some targets are set by the system (proposal, defence, submission) but most are set by you. Your publication plans, your conference plans, your networking targets, are entirely personal. To start off, why dont you print a copy of your CV, and sit with a marker pen and insert 'potentials' in every section. What you would like to see there, in the next few years. And there you go, those are your targets. Track your progress, test your strengths. If you do this in your first yr, and amend/modify along the way, you won't have to discover your CV anew (along with gaps) in the end rush. Make your CV you basket of targets if you feel you haven't any targets now.

3) Life on hold. well. yes. I got the news of my close friend's engagement 15 mins ago. Another is having a baby this summer, and two are on a honeymoon in Mauritius and someplace else. And mind you, we are all fresh out of Masters, did straight degrees after high school and joined the PhD. Even then, I find every one I know is hooked up. Some people manage both lives, some people prioritise.

And often it sucks. I want their lives at times. But then I realise it was just a phase.

I've been there. We've all been there. It may not be time to quit. It may only be time to sit and think!! :-)

Good vibes!

Dear Dave,

I know how you feel. I have been through similar thing through my undergrad. American's are different than the English and other Europeans and since I have studied in North America, I can see where your coming from.

You are welcome to quit your PhD but there are a few things I would like to tell you before. First, quitting is a habit hard to quit. Life is tough as nails but now is your chance to stand up to it, if you are able to pull through this then later on you will say to yourself 'this is nothing compared to what I have been through before'. Second, if your more normal and social than the others then that's a good sign. People would want to hurt you just for the sport because they see that your personality is superior than theirs. If they have an anti-social mood or life then its their problem, not yours. Perhaps these people are not as good as you. The best thing you can do is stay away from those people and find other people in the school that are fun to be with and to work with.

I don't know if you do any exercise but joining a gym or any other sports class is a very good way to get you anger and frustration out. The days I was depressed I went to the gym and took it out on the weight knowing they couldn't hurt me back and after a while you will get back your self-confidence. You have worked so hard to get into your school, don't leave it without a fight!

MH

Hi Dave

Good response from PhdBug. :-) You sound quite a focused person from your post and, as you say, quite balanced. If you can't find the sociality you're looking for within your academic environment, seek one outside of it. Try to enjoy the opportunity to generate purposeful study/interests in your own PhD work - PhdBug's suggestions are spot on in this. Finding and building your own path can seem hard in the early stages but sometimes, simply generating some sense of direction can help put you in touch with people who are a little more enthusiastic about ideas and sharing them. That, in turn, can make PhD life a little more interesting. Your life doesn't have to be ob hold - you can make your own decisions... and it's entirely up to you to seize what opportunities may come your way (or even to go looking for them if they are not happening along quite fast enough for you... *grin* The PhD is what you make it, for sure it takes a lot of commitment but that doesn't necessarily have to equate to deprivation. So, some solutions...

Aimless - think up some goals
Lonely - join some clubs, find friends outside of your work/study zone
Depressed - make a list of why you feel that way, then make another list of desires that can pull you out of the first
Poor - well, sometimes a little harder to get round - can you tutor, teach, mark papers... find free things to do/get involved in

Now, we all know PhD work takes up a lot of personal time, but you can choose to take some regular time out... a change is as good as a rest, as they say.

Best of luck with it all... :-)

Hey Dave! I guess really I want to say what everyone else has said...you really shouldn't give up without a fight given that you have worked so hard for this. But something about your post strikes me as being different from the usual PhD blues, which I think most people do get at some point (I have spent a lovely afternoon having my work torn apart by the university statistician!!). I guess it's important to think about whether it is the place, the people, the nature of the PhD, or your actual PhD topic itself that is getting you so down. If your topic isn't really doing it for you, then I guess it will be really hard work to drag yourself through it. If the topic is fine, but the other factors are getting you down, maybe you need to think about how you can change things- it really sounds like you can't deal with much more of this. Or is it just the comparison between you and where your pals are up to that is getting you down? I know this probably sounds unappealing, but is there a university counsellor you can go speak to? Sometimes just talking honestly to someone about how things are can help you at least to work out what the problem is and where to go from there. There are always options and choices, even though they might not be easy ones to take- anything must be better than how you are feeling right now. Best of luck sorting things out.

Sounds like you're going through a horrible time. Although I think there have been some good responses so far, my instinct having read your post is that you're probably just not suited to the PhD life, and if you don't see the completion of your project in it's own right as your driving goal then I can't see that you'll make it through for another 3-5 years. I'm not saying just walk away without seriously considering whether you can do something else with your life at the moment in which you'll be happier. Also, everybody has low points and you need to decide (with the help of some of the suggestions from other posters perhaps) whether this is a temporary thing or not. However, I've had friends quit their PhDs who really struggled with the idea of quitting anything, but for whom it was definitely the right decision. A PhD is not going to help you career-wise very much unless you continue to work in your field, and if you're not really driven by your work then you're not likely to feel strongly about getting the PhD for its own sake. I wouldn't want you to rush into a decision but for some people it's just not the right path to take and it's ok to admit that if you're one of them. Best of luck working this one out.

First of all, remember that you have been doing this since September, so you have been through the winter, now the weather is getting better, things tend to improve on their own.

The feeling of isolation is not uncommon, I guess most of us have been through that at some stage, its basically because all our work is slightly, or majorly, different to that of everyone else, so on the level it can seem as though we have nothing much in common, however at a deeper level we can find things that we share, even if it is only our problems.

getting people to join in things is never easy, over here I am chair of our local community centre, and although lots of people want things done, they never turn up to AGMs, we usually have one person and a dog- and that is only if its raining!:$ - its mostly because they think they might have to do something (they are not wrong there!) you might want to try again, or even widen your offer to other people, a notice in your library might do it, or an invitation to something where people know what will be expected of them, It is hard to enter a room of strangers, so something non- threatening is good, an individual thing that could result in co-operation, a quiz or something maybe, nothing to do with work. At this uni - I'm part time by the way -we meet up some Saturdays because some information sessions have been set up, looking at different areas that are common to most PhD work, so we get to meet people from different disciplines. Perhaps you could suggest something like that. Maybe something along those lines would help

Again at this uni we can join in masters courses if we want, if you could do that you might find other people to be with, and with whom you can associate.

As others have said, at lower levels your targets are more likely to be set for you whilst at this level there is a lot of self setting. This is not a bad thing really as only you know your subject, so you should be the best one to do this. Set yourself some small targets to start with, to read and comment on a couple of papers for instance and when you are comfortable doing that, you can move on to other things. Don't rush to be ultra productive, that will come, just take your time and go with the flow. :-)

You should, i think give it a bit longer before you make a decision about what you want to do, but if you do decide to do something else, don't go out on a negative note don't think ' I'm quitting', think ' I have decided to make a positive move to another area which I feel will be a good move and use my talents well'

good luck

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I haven't read the replies yet, but I can totally relate to the original post. :(

I feel your pain Dave. I really like Phdbug's response. Great CV suggestion. I would agree with the others as well to consider going to the Counseling Center at the school. That's what they're there for.
1. If you are a spiritual person, pray or join a church. If you have family you can talk to, drive there and have dinners. During the summers, take road trips.

2. I would also encourage you to join, or create a Doc student group. At this stage people don't want to hang out all the time, I agree, but meeting with a group each week to discuss your research, and your progress can be a good boost for you. In time, you will find that this student group can lead to friendships. And, it is these same people that you can hang out with to release the stress and tension that YOU ALL are facing. You cant do this alone! The student group will help you get through it, and you might even find yourself pushing and motivating others in the process.

3. Find out if there are any teaching opportunities for you on campus. Preparing for class can be time consuming, which will lead to less time alone and at home thinking about why you should not be there.

4. Look to see which professors are doing interesting research, and ask to be a grad assistant. This might even lead to conference presentations, and even possibly a publication. At the very least, it will get you some experience conducting research, collecting and/or analyzing data.

5. Talk with your advisor. Thats why they are there! Of course don't tell him/her you are thinking about leaving, but ask about their research, and how you can help, or advise on ways to approach other professors in the department about their own work.

6. Think about the real purpose of the PhD. It is not a life of glitter and gold!! It is one of passion and interest. Do you love (LOVE) your topic? You are in your first year, but think about why you are passionate about your topic, and why your voice needs/ should be heard in academia.

7. Build in little rewards for yourself along the way. Buy a bike and go biking on the trail, take long walks/ drives, go to a resturan that you love and indulge. After a long day/night of studying, rent or go to the movies.

8. Hook up with the masters level students. See what they are up to, and where they go to have fun.

9. Join an online dating service if you are not seeing any potential date candidates on campus or in your professional organization. Take the stigma out of finding someone on line. No your not desperate, or ugly.. your just focused. Quite often, people in PhD programs are married or dating. There is nothing wrong with using an alternative source to finding "quality" people. My mother did it and is very happy, and I did it and I am very happy. The person I found was a tenured professor, and chair of the department at the neighboring university. Try it!

All and all, you cant do this alone! Use people to help you reach your goal!

Good point about the 'aimless nature of the PhD' - this is also how I feel. Before it was always target this and target that. This is why I think I prefer work - work with targets!!!!

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Post Removed -Not Relevant-

So Dave - no reply as yet... how are you getting on??

I am a PhD drop out, although still on the academic treadmill (going to do a Masters in a different field this September). Here are my thoughts on your specific issues:

1. Whatever the hardcore students in your group say, it is really important to have some down time. It's a shame that your fellow students are so opposed to anything social, but I guess you can't easily change that - just try to maintain good working relationships with them. Aside from that I would really really recommend getting involved with some activity away from your research group. Some people like to do something with other students from their university; personally I preferred to do something totally independent. In the last six months I was doing my PhD pretty much the only thing that helped me hang on to my sanity was going to a local dance class. Nobody there gave a hoot about experiments, papers, supervisors or whatever - it was pure escapism. Plus exercise is good for your mental state. So get out there and meet other people, and then your PhD won't eat up your entire life.

2. This is a tough one to crack and I don't think there is any one answer as to how to deal with it, as different personalities respond to that scenario in different ways. Some people on here have found various PhD guides/books quite a helpful way of structuring their work. It can be difficult to discern a sense of progress, but if you document what you're doing and keep making notes, hopefully it will start to become apparent that you know more than you did six months ago, for example. Try to build a few tangible goals into the forthcoming months (e.g. applying to go on a conference, writing X hundred words of a literature review, producing a first draft of a thesis chapter) - it will help you feel as though things are moving on.

3. I look around at my friends who are married/own flats/are having children/have their careers sorted, and sometimes I do feel a pang of jealousy. It frustrates me that 5 years after finishing my degree I still don't have the coveted PhD and if I do still want to pursue that path I still have a long way to go. But there is no guarantee that if I wasn't engaged in academic life that all those 'real life' things would come flooding my way anyhow. There are lots of careers which eat up your time in such a way that pursuing personal life can be hard. My outlook is to just get on as well as I can with the situation I am in, and be happy if those things come my way. I don't want to change my career plans to increase the chances of these things happening as I might then find myself without anything! Only you can know how much you want to prioritise these areas of your life, but just bear in mind that many of them are beyond control, and that some of your peers who have the things you covet are possibly jealous of you having the opportunity to pursue your academic interests!

In general...
I dropped out a year ago, before the economy went pear shaped, and the people I asked for advice were generally supportive. My reasons for dropping out were different to yours. I also had a plan of what to do instead (went straight into a research assistant job in another department with a view to carrying on with an academic career in another field). I would advise taking a long time to think about dropping out. Do see if you can make things work by using some of the suggestions people have given before you make your final decision. When I left I had previously gone through a phase of wanting to quit six months earlier, but was determined to give it another shot. It meant that when I did finally go, I knew that I'd done everything I could to make it work, and I haven't had a moment's regret.

Good luck, and keep us posted.