my daughter met the professor of the department where I'm dong my research yesterday as she was visiting the department. They were chatting about me and he said he really wanted to be my second supervisor and if I e-mailed him requesting that this happened it would help his case. I think he would be really good, although he is a hard taskmaster he is very enthusiastic about me (!) although I find his level of knowledge scary.

ontinued - The trouble is that a second supervisor has already been chosen and has sat in on one (and only one of my sessions with my first supervisor)so I'm not sure if the change would be allowed? also this person was the one who asked loads of questions concerning the worth of my proposal - in fact he was quite rude about it until I produced the facts that showed it was an important area. It is an area where there has been very little research -ever. My dilemma is that he might be the sort of person who would take umbrage at the change, and since someone in the dept will probably be the internal examiner, I would hate it to be him if he had a bad attitude. So what would you do?

Can you approach this professor yourself--perhaps ask him if you can have coffee or lunch and talk further about it? Can you let him know you are not sure what the department politics are around adding someone, and that you want to make sure you stick with the expected protocols ( without going into the details about the concerns of the current second?)? Can you have two second supervisors-I have heard of this being done in some instances. This person might be aware of how to install him as a second supervisor without rocking the department boat.

It might be worth considering this quite carefully!

Your current second supervisor, is being a bit of a pain, but thats all he will ever be - you are able to dismiss what he says if he is being unreasonable, roll your eyes etc etc- provided you are happy with your PI - the second is really only there for extra input - but should not be able to directly influence

However, this professor who likes you might be a good person to keep in the sidelines as an internal examiner for your final viva - you'll still be able to speak to him and keep him up to date all the same and get advice from him, but when the time comes, you can suggest him as your internal? - its always better to have a friendly face than someone who is going to do their best to have a go at you (which is what might happen if you dissmiss your second supervisor)

I know the prof well, I did my MA at the same place and he was involved in the teaching and we got on really well. I was quite surprised when they chose the person as second supervisor, because this prof, along with my first supervisor really helped me shape my proposal. The only reason I can think of is that he is involved in teaching science on the PGCE course and my research is in science education, but really I don't want someone like him because he is involved with teaching science (gosh, that sounds a bit arrogant doesn't it? but I want to look at the potential changes to technicians in scienceand the effect this could have on education, and teachers seem to think it is about them, which it isn't - although in the long run it could be) Plus he and my first supervisor get on relly well too, and they think along the same lines so if one wasn't available I think I could probably turn to the other and get similar feedback.

There are others, not necessarily in the school of education but inother science education areas which I think would do well as an internal, and there may well be others by the time I get this finished. This 2nd guy was the one that turned my initial proposal from the regulation 2 pages to 31 so that it gave the kind of elaboration that is supposed to come in the proposal bit I'm doing now which was a bit of a pain

again it sounds like the Prof might be a good guy to keep on side rather than limiting him to being a second supervisor

If your second supervisor is causing you problems - speak to your PI and tell them that you don't want the second involved as much - or tell them that they are being unfair because of X Y Z

but if you make the prof your second supervisor - all he will be able to do is tell you the right direction etc - which he can do without being your second

On the other hand if you don't make him your second - you have options to use him as your internal

Also you will more than likely cause issues if you 'sack' your current 2nd supervisor - which may not be worth the hassle -

believe me I had the same debate - and now my prof is my internal and I couldn't be happier - because he is reasonable

I also made and external a 2nd second supervisor- which was a mistake because I could have used them as an external

Try think long term - will getting rid of this guy come back to bite you in teh ass?

Thanks for the advice, I had rather assumed that he was taking a back seat in order to be the internal the second guy is learning to be a suervisor I think, which may be why he is trying to make a point about being very hands on, but I'm also sure he will try to make it about teachers if he can, which is not what I want to do. I've e-mailed the prof telling him that altohugh I would like him to be the second supervisor, my letter says that the second sup has already been appointed, and therefore I'm not sure if he could do it. I guess that he will sort it out if he wants to do it with those who control these things.

change supervisors if you think you will work better together - it is so important to have the right supervisor and dont worry if some egos are damaged - there are polite ways to do it. I wish i had - I had a lame duck 2nd supervisor who i kept and he added nothing to the project - attended only one meeting in four years and didnt even read the thesis before submission - yet still his name is on it grr! so in retorspect I wish I had changed to someone else when I was given the chance instead of worrying about how it would look or future issues.