Ok folks. I am in my third year of my PhD. I have all my data collected and analysed (I'm qualitative). My biggest problem is my writing skills. Basically I have very little. I handed in my lit review chapter (3rd draft) and my findings chapter (1st draft) (bout 50,000 words and over 6 months work) to my supervisors. Their response was this:

With my lit review they chose not to talk about it because it was so bad. I asked about my findings chapter and they responded by saying the quotes were good but I could use nothing else.

My biggest problem in the whole PhD is this. My writing has not got any worse since applying, so I dont know why they took me on in the first place if they think I am so bad.

My supervisors are really nice, give good feedback and are very honest. However, they say my writing is "bad" and every time I ask how I can get better they tell me "it will come." I am so frustrated with this and I don't know where to turn to.

So my main question is can you learn to write? If so how? Do I turn to the option of people someone to rewrite my chapters? Am I wasting my time?

Please help, so frustrated and utterly at my wits end.

Thanks

Yes you can learn to write - it just takes practice..

Does your uni not have any writing courses? I know they had some where I was at...

No, we looked into that last year and there is nothing useful provided by my Uni. Do you know any that are given in the UK?

Have you any advice on how to learn? I have wrote 3 different chapters, 3 different conference papers and numerous reports at this stage and I still have not improved any.

So do you think it might be a waste of time for me?

The BBSRC do courses for BBSRC funded students - so perhaps approach your research council if you have one. Or google search for academic writing courses.

I don't think you are wasiting your time

I think you need your supervisor to be more constructive with their feed back "bad" and "it will come." are really not sufficient they should be giving you help where you need it - that is what they are there for.

I think you need to find out the specifics of what is 'bad' first of all. But yes, you can learn to write. What follows assumes that you haven't got any underlying learning disabilities like dyslexia, which do need specialist help, and which your university should provide.

Is it the grammar for example? If so, it might be worth checking whether your university has any resources aimed initially at English language learners to practice the different rules, but they can be genuinely helpful for others too. My university has computer-based packages in their language centre but there's also some material in the library. Equally go and get some of those guides aimed at new undergraduates writing their first essays - there's some good tips in those books on common grammar errors, and there are very few of us, who write naturally so well, that we can't be helped by refreshing our memory of some of the ground rules.

Or is it that your style of writing is the problem e.g. lacking structure, using over-complicated sentence structures or your writing not being 'academic' enough?

If it's structure, then I've always found it helpful to remember to make introductions and conclusions very clear. Intoduction - this is what the aim of the chapter is, and this is how I am going to approach it. Conclusion - recap of what the chapter aimed to do and what it concludes and then where it leads us next. Then try to look at each paragraph. What is the point you are trying to make in each paragraph? Is it clear? If there's no point being made in the paragraph, it probably can be deleted.

If it's over-complicated sentences, read some Ernest Hemingway to see how less can be more! Try to break dowm sentences with too many clauses, eliminate superfluous adjectives etc. Something I was once told was if you are over-complicating a concept, it means you haven't understood it properly.

If it's the reverse problem - your writing style isn't academic enough, then try to be really precise in how you write. Avoid journalistic flourishes and throw-away comments.

There are some helpful general resources here around writing too:
http://www.rlf.org.uk/fellowshipscheme/writing/diswriting/intro.htm
Even if your university doesn't offer courses, is there a writing centre or a writing fellow that you could make an appointment to go and see and get advice?

One thing you could suggest to your supervisor is that they work intensively with you on rewriting three or four paragraphs. It could be that you just need to see what your work could read like, to see what the problems are.

Hope something here helps.

Hi Donzy,
Well, on first impression, I would say that it's your supervisors' feedback that is 'bad' rather than your writing style! It's demotivating to receive comments like that with no strategies for moving forward. I'd agree with all the suggestions that have been given already. I also like to look at an exemplar of the task I'm about to undertake to gauge the writing style expected and the structure. Your university should have copies of theses that you can have a look at. Perhaps even some by your supervisors' previous students? Good luck!

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I sailed through a Masters with Distinction, but when I started to write up my PhD thesis my supervisor was horrified with my writing. Basically it wasn't up to scratch, mostly due to structuring issues, and not linking together into a bigger argument. We were both rather mystified about why this was, given how easy I'd found everything up until then. Though I had always voiced concerns about stepping up to PhD level ...

By the time this cropped up my supervisor was nearly 500 miles away at another university, so I couldn't have face-to-face discussions with him about the problem. Instead he gave me very precise feedback about what was wrong, and what areas I needed to work on.

After a year of writing part-time I started from scratch again, working on the areas he had highlighted. And this time the feedback was much better. I kept working on it. And got through.

You definitely need more precise feedback from your supervisors about what is wrong. Saying just "Bad" isn't helpful! In what ways is it bad? How precisely can it be improved? So ask for this.

Good luck!

Right after 106 days I finally got some feedback as to what is wrong with my writing. I have a limited vocabulary and I need to read my work out loud.

Can anyone make any suggestions how I can tackle the limited vocab problem. Thanks x

I agree with Bilbo. In addition, use a thesaurus & make a list of terminology, like your own dictionary. I've got a list on the wall by my computer entitled 'A place for words to use!' & it's now covered in useful words, definitions & phrases. This has been really useful in extending my vocabulary & helping me to focus on an academic style & tone. Good luck! :-)

Assuming you have got the content correct, there are things you can do to tighten up your writing. Read well but also widely. I would also recommend re-reading articles which you found helpful, but read them for style rather than just content. What was it about the way it was written that appealed to you? Look specifically at sentence construction.

Similar to Mog, I jot down words etc I like, find useful, am not familiar with, but I do it in a notebook which I refer to, when I remember! Reading out loud can be helpful too as it's not the same as reading back over your material in your head. It helps with comma, semi-colon insertion etc. It will also help you spot when your sentences are too long and have too many clauses. The simple thing to do in this instance is to put in a few more full stops, basic as it seems. A short sentence in the midst of two longer ones can be quite effective. Write out your link words, no PhD is complete without them! So - however, moreover, accordingly, therefore ... and consult them 'accordingly'!

Good luck with it :-)

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This is a big problem in research fraternity which arises from lack of training than knowledge. Most instituitons and supervisors do not guide students from start on the framework of thesis and how a student should improve on writing. Many supervisors themselves lack knowledge in how to build, so they escape by putting burdern of this on students. There might be one or two writing courses which is normally conducted by a non-Phd tutors and they have no clue on scientific writing, most these are fighting for a job than imparting teaching. Initially I used to think so much for words and writing a page in my own words was impossible for a given problem. I was good with solving problems but to present ideas one needs to be a good writer. All PhD students from day one should read varieties of books on variety of topics, especially where how a problem evolves and facts presented. They must learn how to extract summary from a book and keep writing each idea everyday, atleast for 1 hr a day. How to understand problems, how to evaluate and present facts, its all an art. PhD thesis writing and means available must be researched from day one. Also, I think 3 months gap between final lab work and starting writeup serves well. Especially, mind is simulated so much during lab work that immediately starting write up is quite counter-productive. Students who are not bonded well with supervisors always struggle with writeup, especially if supervisor lacks insights on your research. What is the point of whole research if you cannot express it that others can understand? Supervisors assume students will do it, rather guiding them from start.


Coming back to your question, can you learn to write? Yes, it takes time, more than that interest.

1. Read good thesis related to your topic - understand the problem, content, how they presented literature, the philosophy, summary.
2. Read books that interest you - can be religious, adventrous, management, anything that you enjoy. Understand how they evaluate and present facts.
3. Writing requires good understanding of a problem and facts available. Be patient and allow good amount of time if English not your first language.
4. If you read books, and you find some paragraph interesting, then write and save on a paper. How can this be presented towards explaining my problem? think. Even movies or any life experience can be used to express your research problem. Reading become interesting when there is some humor and bit of reality in it.
5. Avoid pedantic write-ups at start. Understand different styles of writing and which one fits your style. Shakespeare, wall street or harry potter. Be urself..
6.If your problem is unique, create a perception of understanding in your writing first and then explain your problem. If your supervisor only watched Dr.NO, then how the hell he'll understand Dr. Who? His brain with Dr.No & Pussy Galore memories and perceptions will not understand Dr. Who. For him if Dr.Who does not have a cat and Pussy, the whole concept is useless..
7Seek help and proof read by others.

Hope this helps. Dont give up, with regular pressure as termed in geology, even big mountains turn into dust.

Absolutely writing is something you learn!! And can learn!! And its not even that hard. I know how discouraging it is to be told your writing is not up to standard. But you can turn that around in an afternoon...seriously! Preferred writing styles go through fashions, if you will. Just like clothes. So what was suitable five years ago might now seem no longer OK in academic writing.
I strongly recommmend the Bryan Garner, Legal Writing in Plain English book. Even if or especially if you do not do legal writing, this is still a helpful book. It tells you how to write clearly, what to do with quotes, how to edit, etc. And it does it all in a way that is clear, straightforward and EASY!!! It gives you a process and with the book at your elbow, off you go.

And you can get used copies on Amazon usually around £5 or less.


There are many many how to write books out there...but in my experience nothing works better than the Garner book. ( and no I do not get any payment or kick back from recommending his book...!) I have suggested it to lots of people and every one has come back and said it worked for them.

I know a few other people on here have tried it, maybe they can give some feedback.

You can turn your writing around, in no time. You just need to be given some structure and framework in which to do it.

Good luck!

Not sure if this would help but there is a great reousrce at Manchester University - the academic phrase bank. I find it really useful in finding new ways to say what someone said (if that makes sense). If nothing else it makes writing sound less boring!

www.phrasebank.manchester.ac.uk