Hi, I'm new here, and wanted to ask about the impact of grades (in certain years) on a PhD application (assuming that references are good).
I study an MSci Chemistry degree, and will be entering 4th year this coming September.
My 1st and 2nd year results were mid 2.1's (~65%), however, upon receiving my 3rd year result last month I am rather worried; I have unfortunately ended up with a 2.2 (59%).
The average across the first 3 years totals to approximately 62%; now my MSci year counts for 40% of the entire degree.
I believe the usual time for PhD applications are November/December onwards?
However, I am under the influence that my 3rd year result will greatly impact the application seeing as at the current time, the 3rd year mark will be the most influential seeing as it is the most recent result and so far the hardest out of the first 3 years (is this a correct assumption to make?).
Now what I wish to ask is if I manage to score a strong first in the MSci year, will that outweigh the results of the first 3 years and put me in a better position to successfully obtain a PhD place? (The project is worth 75% and exams are 25% weightings in the MSci year).
And in this regard, will it be more or less beneficial to apply for a PhD once my MSci year is complete?
I wish to undertake a PhD within one of the top 5 UK institutions (I will not name it) as some of the projects I am very interested in (still narrowing it down) have supervisors there.
Many Thanks in advance
Other information:
I attend a top 5 UK institution (without giving it away).
I had no mitigation in the 3rd year or any other issues.
I need ~ 80% in my MSci year to obtain an overall first class degree classification (this is not impossible).
[quote]Quote From naturalproduct:
Hi, I'm new here, and wanted to ask about the impact of grades (in certain years) on a PhD application (assuming that references are good).
I study an MSci Chemistry degree, and will be entering 4th year this coming September.
My 1st and 2nd year results were mid 2.1's (~65%), however, upon receiving my 3rd year result last month I am rather worried; I have unfortunately ended up with a 2.2 (59%).
The average across the first 3 years totals to approximately 62%; now my MSci year counts for 40% of the entire degree.
I believe the usual time for PhD applications are November/December onwards?
However, I am under the influence that my 3rd year result will greatly impact the application seeing as at the current time, the 3rd year mark will be the most influential seeing as it is the most recent result and so far the hardest out of the first 3 years (is this a correct assumption to make?).
Now what I wish to ask is if I manage to score a strong first in the MSci year, will that outweigh the results of the first 3 years and put me in a better position to successfully obtain a PhD place? (The project is worth 75% and exams are 25% weightings in the MSci year).
And in this regard, will it be more or less beneficial to apply for a PhD once my MSci year is complete?
I wish to undertake a PhD within one of the top 5 UK institutions (I will not name it) as some of the projects I am very interested in (still narrowing it down) have supervisors there.
Many Thanks in advance
If you are grading as low as 59% it doesnt matter what university you are at - you have a problem. Your grade average over all your years is not really any better. Having said that you could still be successful but remember one thing.....Getting onto a PhD is easy in comparison to actually successfully completing one without running out of funding. I would not recommend anyone taking on a PhD with such poor grades. Really you need to be getting a first. Having said that, people do manage to turn things around but you are making a very tough task much harder if you dont have a first.
You are talking about 80% being possible but speaking frankly, your grades are going in the opposite direction and you will definitely have trouble persuading anyone that you can miraculously turn this around. You have no evidence to suggest that is possible and in my opinion the fact that your university is seemingly highly rated, whatever that means, is probably not relevant in that respect. By all means apply, and you certainly should if that is what you want to do, but my strong advice is for you to make turning your poor grades around your top priority and consider the possibility that you might have to do a PhD elsewhere.
Thank you for the response.
Could you elaborate on why getting onto a PhD is "easy", because I had always thought it was difficult, as you mentioned, that it is strongly advised to have a first class classification.
You're correct in saying my grades do not support my case very well, does that mean you recommend to waiting until finishing the degree, and if the overall grades turn out very good, then applying?
Would that put me in a better position, as the MSci project year is the most relevant to doing a PhD since that is where the longest part of research is carried out within the entire degree?
I didn't completely understand what you meant by doing a PhD elsewhere, do you mean that I should apply in my 4th year but to other places? If so, what do you mean by "other" places? Because not everywhere will have the research field in which I am interested in.
I agree, having looked at trends in student grades year on year at my uni, most students get the same sort of percentage throughout their years ie if they are getting 65% in year 2, they will get 65% in year 3. It's not common to see large grade increases.
It's pretty easy to get on to a PhD. Depending on field, there can be very few applicants so competition isn't always high. I know many people doing PhDs without 1st or masters as well. Also, grades aren't the be all and end all. Life skills are all important for doing a PhD successfully: resilience, perseverance, a thick skin, managing your project and your supervisor, time management, getting good data to publish etc etc
There's no usual time for PhD applications. That's just crap people say. They can start time of year, but most start in Sept/Oct. Many are advertised March/April time as well. You can apply before you get your result or after. You may as well try and see what happens. It will give you time to hone your application and interview skills if nothing else.
I think it's your predicted grades they will be looking at - not your third year grade. And bear in mind how your referee is going to calculate your predicted grade - they will look at your past grades.
It's your overall grade that will count in the end - people won't care much if you get a first in your MSci year but still a 2.1 overall. That's still a 2.1 overall.
Yes a good 4th year mark will of course be of benefit for those reasons, but there's the issue of consistency. Any perspective supervisor will wonder why you didn't do as well in other years. More consistent candidates might have the edge over you.
Getting your MSci supervisor to like you will be a massive benefit. Supervisors won't sell you in a reference or to their colleagues if they didn't think you were a good student for them.
And a low 2.1 really isn't a problem anyway to be honest, like I said, most PhD students I know got a 2.1. But this is Biology at a Russell Group uni, might be different elsewhere.
PhD recruitment committees will always be particularly interested in the research project or dissertation mark. Maybe focus on that instead of PhD apps this year and actually see if you are good at research and enjoy it (you might have done a research project in your 3rd year so forgive me if that is the case). So, you might get a 2.1 overall, but with a very good research project mark (say over 75) in the 4th year that would look more favourable. I can see where some other posters are coming from re consistency and knowledge.
Whilst you might be enthused by PhD topics within 'one of the 'top 5 institutions' have you looked elsewhere (and, indeed beyond the Russell Group?). Do have a look around as there might be even better more suitable departments, projects and supervisors. League table positions seem important to you (since you refer to the interest uni as 'one of the top 5', rather than just saying nothing), take no notice of league tables, something really for A level students. REF tables might be useful, but research and supervisor fit, location and support/'feeling' of department are just as important, if not more so. Where you get your PhD from means nothing (or shouldn’t). The uni just funds the research and awards it after external examination.
Hey! I had "the grades" but found it difficult to get PhD funding (I sucked in my first interview and had to wait another year for my next applications - it was stressful as I thought "how many years am I going to have to do this for?!"). Thankfully it was only a year in the end but still - it was hard.
I would say in your position just do the best you can and see what happens. Enthusiasm counts if you get through to interview stage. I'd say apply for as many as possible (within reason - after all - each one will involve some work) to increase your chances of getting funding. I wouldn't resign myself if I were you, but definitely go for it.
Also - maybe consider Plan B options. A colleague of mine got a 2.1 or a 2.2 (can't remember now but think it was a 2.2), funded herself for the first year of her PhD, and then managed to obtain funding for the remaining two years. That could be a Plan B for if things don't work out the first time round. Also maybe apply for a mixture of different unis.
Good luck with everything!
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