Hi all,

I have been applying for PhD's for the past year and a half with about 6 interviews in that time. All have been unsuccessful with the advice being to do a masters or get research experience. Research experience is proving very difficult to get as much as I am currently trying.

I had been accepted to study a for an MRes however, I cannot afford to do this route. I applied for a scholarship that was advertised but (despite meeting most of the points for consideration) I did not get this scholarship. There is a certain feeling of unfairness in that I cannot afford to follow the main reason I have been given as to why I have been unsuccessful in securing a PhD.

I am now in a position where, for a second year since graduating, I have no further study for September. To say I am disheartened or in great need of some encouragement is a vast understatement.

Has anybody used the professional development loan to fund their masters and how was this option?

Is there any advice people could give relating to making my applications stronger? (I could provide an example cover letter that I modify - heavily - for each application)

Also, from my understanding of the career, it would be 1 year MRes, 3-4 years PhD, 2-3 years post-doc then fellowship / lectureship, totaling 6 - 8 years before I would actually start my own research. Is there any age point at which one would be disadvantaged in a research/academic career?

Thanks,

How much is your masters? Is there no way that you can do it part time and get a full time job? I guess you need the loan to cover the initial fees though.

I remember your earlier posts where I said that sometimes they just use the research experience/no MSc thing as an easy way to decline you. My thoughts are though, why are they interviewing you at all if they already know the extent of your experience and qualifications? I still think there is more to the story, and most of the time the positions are being given to people they know, or people that just come across better in the interview.

The time scale you are describing isn't too long. Also remember that many people spend 5 - 10 years in post docs/temp research positions before being able to move on/drop out.

The masters is £5,500. If i remain home then all I would need is enough to cover the course fees and I would be able to survive. However, the loan only covers 80% of the fees as I am currently working which means I'd need to borrow more.

That is a question I have been trying to answer myself, as I not only explain my history thus far, but I also created a website which goes into much more detail and I always direct potential supervisors towards this too.

For a couple of the interviews it was absolutely my fault in that I was far too nervous and it had an effect. I can fully accept that as a reason. In one it was almost certainly decided that the supervisors undergrad project student was getting the PhD.

The timescale is my biggest worry so it is good to hear that I'm maybe just panicking a bit.

I do have the option of working a year and then doing it or doing it part time but I'm already reluctant to go back to doing exams as it is. I feel ready for a more research focused studying. The MRes has only 6 months in the lab on the project.

Without meaning to be nosey, I read your last post and couldn't help wondering whether the website with further information about yourself was a good idea or not. I don't know what the nature of the further information is, but I'd personally be wary of giving too much information and potentially raising a doubt about your applications. My approach to applications is always to give exactly the information that's requested, no more and no less.

The website contains a bit more info on my research in terms of a description of the science (similar to that which some labs have) but not in detail as to what I did or results. I keep results or anything personal off. It was helpful on my last application and got a positive response whilst searching for research experience although it was only the second time that I'm aware anybody actually looked at it. Since I have been using it I've not noticed any effect on my applications in a negative sense, I secured more interviews this year than I did in my previous rounds of applying - but that is probably a result from better cover letters.

But it's certainly something I could re-consider.

Ah, that doesn't sound like anything risky!

For what it's worth, doing a Masters made a huge difference to my success in getting a PhD place. I couldn't even get shortlisted before doing my MSc, and after completing it, it only took two PhD applications. I did my MSc with the OU part-time over several years while I worked. I think, as TreeofLife says, sometimes you're up against the unknown (such as a candidate already known to the panel and who can say the right magic words) but I also think that if you can find a way to pay for the Masters, it will probably help.

I just wanted to emphasise something treeoflife hinted at: your first post makes it sound as if you think progression to a lectureship is inevitable. It really isn't. The majority of people who successfully complete a PhD and even those who manage to get a postdoc, will not get a permanent academic post as a lecturer. Most of those who can't get any further will be people with excellent academic credentials - there just are not enough jobs for all those doing PhDs. This might be something you want to take into account when deciding whether or not to borrow money.

If you live at home you could very easily do it part-time and work part-time to fund it. I don't see that your situation is particularly dramatic or 'unfair' as you put it, it's just the way the system is...

It is good to know that a masters could be as helpful as people keep saying. Although I still disagree with it being a valid excuse to why I was unsuccessful. I would prefer it if the problem was that I came across negatively or something else that I could work on.

I know that the whole academic career path is very difficult and competitive. And by all means I may not ever be in a position to have a permanent post. I was just going down a rough 'ideal' route.

I could do it part time, my concern was more to do with timescales. I graduated last year, struggled to find a job (there is little in the way of a bioscience industry where I am so I'm doing a job not remotely related to what I'm interested in). I suppose I just feel as though it is getting late with regards to the point of entry, considering the timescales involved in such a career. But that may all be be just worrying far too much -as it seems I am.

The unfairness that I see is with respect to funding. I do not believe that anybody else should necessarily pay for my studies but there should be an accessible method of funding, akin to undergrad, where I could pay back as I earned. If a masters is such a requirement (and the advice/feedback I've received suggest it is) then there should be some more accessible route. Those of us who are the first generation to even attend university let alone consider postgrad study need accessibility. To be clear, accessibility is not being handed funding or money.

I took out a Career Development Loan to fund my MSc. At the end of my MSc I received full funding for my PhD at the same university.

It sucked. But it had to be done to pursue the career I wanted.

Also, I know of at least 2 people who started MSc's and within about 3 months withdrew to start working on fully funded PhDs at the same institution. It's not common, but does happen.

So yeh, basically... if you want to be an academic you need a PhD. It's very rare to get onto a PhD (especially a funded one) without an MSc/MA/M-something. And yes, you will have to fund that yourself. Sucks, but that's how it goes I'm afraid.

You are totally right. It is really unfair. Out of the 4 people that have done an MSc in my lab since I've been there, 3 of them had mummy and daddy to pay for it and give them an allowance. (Only one worked part time to fund it himself and lived at his parents to save money. He never socialised because he couldn't afford to.) This is totally wrong and it's a barrier to progression.

I'm currently finishing up an MSc degree, and i have to say that i agree that it is unfair in a lot cases. I worked hard for a year to save up money for half my tuition fee (which is almost double yours) before i could even think of applying. Now i am 10 months into my 1 year full MSc, and financially, it has been very tough. I'm working two part time jobs on the side because I have to pay for accomodation (living with parents wasn't an option for me) and my living expenses. I've pretty much sacrificed my social life for this degree.

I do know a lot of people that have had their parents pay their tuition fees, rent and give them allowances- so yes, its very unfair- but what can you do? Its how the system works, and those of us without rich parents or some kind of trust fund end up bearing the brunt. I've long accepted it and now really just hope my MSc is worth it. Its definitely been a big help with job applications and it does give you a good edge over other candidates- I hope to start applying for a PhD in september when i have more time. Hopefully this will help!

Live at home, do the course part time and work in the mean time- or save up for a while before going in full time. There are options and while it sucks, its just something you're going to have to do, and deal with.

Seconding what bewildered said as this is a really really important point. For all the government bluster about needing more people trained in STEM areas, the career structure is not great and a lot of good people fall by the wayside. There is an obscene amount of wasted talent. Why do people train so many PhD students when there aren't the jobs for them all? Quite simply because they are cheap. Here's a recent blog post covering some of the issues from a US perspective:
http://thoughtsforbreakfast.wordpress.com/2014/07/14/is-it-morally-acceptable-to-hire-postdocs/

So please do some homework on the likelihood of actually making it to a lecturer post and factor that in to your decision making. This will vary between fields and subfields, so if you're very focussed on the end goal of a lecturer post then make sure you specialise in an area that is expanding, not contracting.

Out of curiosity, what routes have you been trying as a means to get research experience? You would be eligible to apply for research technician and research assistant jobs. If successful this would tick the 'research experience' box without recourse to a masters. It can also be a useful way of getting a foot in the door of a particular group with a view to starting a PhD later.

How flexible are you with respect to location? Are there any work/study abroad options which might be more financially manageable?