Hello! I'm new here. I'm in my 4th year of the PhD and am feeling demotivated. I do find my research topic interesting but a lot of the time I also doubt if my work is good at all and if it's worthwhile. I'm also a big procrastinator and can sit at the desk all day without getting much done, though there are days when I'm in the "zone" and I get lots done. My supervisor is not particularly supportive. I hardly see him and he seems to be more interested in/busy with his other work/students. His comments on my work so far are not very critical and I always fear that when it comes to my viva (which will be ages and ages away) I'll be told that my work is rubbish. It doesn't help that recently a lot of my friends who had started at the same time as me have submitted. Of course I am genuinely happy for them, but a part of me also feels like such a loser. I know I shouldn't compare to other people but sometimes I can't help it. I keep these feelings to myself though as I don't want to upset anyone. I'm also fed up with being asked when I"m finishing by friends, new people I meet, my family, my partner's family etc etc. Eventhough I've accepted the fact that I'm not finishing anytime soon I really don't enjoy explaining it to people. Moneywise it's not great either as my funding was only for 3 years and I am now living on my savings. I do some teaching but get paid peanuts for it. Now with the festive season approaching money is becoming a bigger headache. And I don't even have the faintest idea when I will finish. I still need more data and have a lot more writing to do. I know I will finish it SOMEDAY but am just finding it difficult everyday. My life is consumed with guilt. If I get some work done I feel guilty that I'm still behind and am nowhere near finishing, if I don't get much work done then of cos I feel guilty at the end of the day. I don't usually work in the weekend but sometimes I feel guilty and think may be I should...

Sorry about the incoherent rant! I know I just need to get on with it and get it finished... Still, any tips/advice on coping with 4th year/guilt/distant supervisor/motivation problem etc welcome!

am also a fourth year going through most if not all of those things. my tips:

1) stop comparing: everyone's phd experience is different and every project is different.

2) determine to finish soon and set a date: this will help you stay motivated. i have set mine for end Feb, latest March. tell the supervisor about this date and that will make them see that you are serious.

3) think and speak positive words to yourself and don't feel guilty about your pace. those asking don't mean any harm. they just can't relate to the demands of a phd. understand them from that point of view.

4) festive season: send cards to loved ones. and if they ask for more tell them funds are low.. its the thought that counts.

5) re supervisor: your supervisor will only show some interest if you show him that you are serious about finishing. this is what you need to show them and things will improve. at this point we are expected to be independent of them. i hardly communicate with mine except when we are discussing work and every other student of his meets regularly with him at the pub after work. don't compare. just focus on your own thing, on finishing soon and being liberated from this phd depression.

6) have you read joan volker's book on writing up a phd? this is a must read to stay alive on your phd after year 3.

more later.

======= Date Modified 12 Nov 2009 20:22:52 =======
Well you might not believe it, you are describing my feelings in detail, I felt that it was me who wrote this thread. I really felt exactly the same for the last four years, but luckily I finished now and waiting for my viva.

I was always thinking my work is worse than the others, and my supervisor was not critical at all, but at the end I found out that my work was actually good and now I got a good paper in respectable journal.

so just keep going and try to remember positive things whenever you hear a negative tape in your head, I started to try to distract my self with what ever I can.

listen to this video I find it very encouraging when I am sad :

1-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8uR6Z6KLc
2-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6hz_s2XIAU
3-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkCFeNeqyHk




hope this will help, all the best .

Hi there

I think it's inevitable that you doubt your work - lots of us do. We all harbour doubts and wonder if our work if PhD standard - that's natural, this whole process makes you question yourself. Your work is good enough - your supervisor hasn't said anything to the contrary have they? Have faith in yourself.

As for procrastination - this shows you're feeling overwhelmed. Break your work down into little tasks, and do them, tick them off, one by one. Get a timer, and work for 15 minutes, then have a break, then do some more work. Jojo's right, read Joan Bolker - she talks about this. Just do a little bit, then keep going. Plan rewards when you've done those little bits of work.

You say you have no idea when you're going to finish - have you done a plan for your thesis? If not, do this as a start. Not knowing how long you've got left would be a big demotivator, with no end in sight. And you don't want to keep going forever! So, draw up a plan, chapter by chapter, map it out, and work out your end date and the goals you need to meet.

As for people asking you about your thesis - I get sick of this question too, and normally make a joke about it not being proper to ask a PhD student how their thesis is going. I also have a t-shirt which reads 'don't ask me about the thesis!', which I love a lot.

Now money - yes, go cheap for Christmas. Go to bargain shops, 2nd hand shops, markets, pick up inexpensive things for people. Let people know there's a budget this year, and not to spend too much on you as well.

Hope some of this helps and you get back into the swing of things.

Hi all,

Hope you all had a nice weekend. Just want to say a big THANK YOU to all the replies! Very much appreciate the supportive words and the advice and tips. Placed an order for Joan Bolker's book too! Also thanks for the youtube links Someone - I've seen all but the Steve Job one as it's a bit long. But will check it out later (definitely interested in what he has to say - I'm an Apple fan). Also I've saved the links to all three so I can return to them when I need to later.

As for the advice about setting a finishing date - I can see how it'd help but honestly don't know how to go about writing mine, mainly because I have little idea how long things will take? Apart from knowing I will need 3-4 weeks to collect more data, I don't know how long I'll need to do the writing. I only have some first and second drafts written for the experiments I have done so far, and a (very drafty) first draft for my introduction chapter... I know they will have to be re-written many many times before they are ready but don't know how long it'll take exactly, or even roughly... And i have little guidance from my supervisor. I was just wondering how did you set your finishing date/thesis plan? Did you know how long you'd take to do the writing or did your supervisor help you set that? And did/do you tend to focus on one chapter at a time when rewriting and start on another when it's finished or do you say work half a week on one chapter and half a week on another?

Have a good week all and I'm gonna set a goal for this week :)

in my case i just decided i wanted my life back in 2010. so i set a date to submit by December 2009 and as i went along i have revised it to February because more needs to be done to improve the draft. mind you i had to start my thesis again from the start after my third year due to supervisory issues. it has taken me just over a year to do everything again - literature review methodology etc. after getting the basics which i now have, i think it will take three months to improve my argument.

i would say three months since you already have something written down and then extend if you can't meet it. the decision has to come from you based on how long you want to be a phd student. in my opinion, you need to be more independent. you know how long you need to write what you need to write - assuming there were no obstacles. just take some time and make a time table and get on with it. the harsh reality is that no one cares how long you remain a phd student, your supervisor included. only you care. so you might as well be your own boss. decide your fate and go for it!

all the best.

======= Date Modified 16 Nov 2009 19:31:41 =======
Hi

Glad you're feeling better! How long writing up takes depends on lots of things - how naturally fast you can go, the field you're in, how quickly your sup gives back drafts, how much other work you have on. I expect that writing up will take me a full year - and this is working almost every day, at least 10 hours a day. I write and write, but need to do lots of rewriting. I will also have written a few conference papers and a couple of journal articles in this year, and that's a lot of work. But I'd say plan for at least 6 months - it's better to have an end date and finish early, than have an end date and need an extension, as this places extra pressure on you.

I write one chapter as a time, and have the chapter numbers on my wall and cross them off as I write the first draft, second draft etc. If I did two at a time I wouldn't get to cross them off as quickly, so I do one at a time. I find it more helpful to really focus on one, but I know other people get bored and work on two chapters at a time.

My latest tip for avoiding procrastination is this: www.mytomatoes.com. It's a website that has a timer, so you work hard for 25 minutes, then have a 5 minute break and this site keeps track of how many 'tomatoes' you do each day. My current round of 'fun' is beating my personal best for tomatoes - sad I know, but whatever gets me through!

I'm part-time (in practice just 5 hours a week for most of the PhD), so started writing up 3 years ago, mid way through my part-time PhD. I didn't think in terms of a submission date, but rather setting myself deadlines for finishing individual chapters, and agreed those with my supervisor, and strived very hard to stick to them, or even come in early. And then I took it from there. In practice I had to effectively start rewriting part way through, because there were significant problems with my writing style. Lucky I started writing early then. Now I've nearly finished I'm going to come in within the 6 years registration period allowed by my uni, but that wasn't my motivating factor, and if I'd needed an official extension (particularly easy to arrange given how much time I lose on medical grounds) I'd have taken one.

I wrote 2 chapters at a time, mainly because I get easily bored and like to switch between different tasks. My thesis has 7 chapters and for the main chunk I wrote chapters 1&2, 3&6, 4&5, and then the final conclusions chapter 7. I would have both chapters open in my word processor at a time, 2 windows beside each other, and then frequently switch between them.

My main anti-procrastination tip is to draw up to-do lists of lots of things to be getting on with, then start picking off the most appealing (or least unappealing?), and take it from there.

Good luck.

======= Date Modified 22 Jan 2010 00:44:39 =======
Just thought I'd post a quick update to say I have read Joan Bolker's book now which I found helpful - thank you! Also Sue: thanks so much for recommending the tomato timer!! It does wonders! Not only does it help reduce the time I spend procrastinating I also really like the fact that I can see how much time I spend on certain tasks, and see that I've made some progress by seeing the list of tomatoes at the end of the day! (up) Since using the tomato timer I have managed to write two chapters in a couple of months - I know this isn't amazing progress but to me that's a lot of progress. I had spent a lot more time producing a lot less in the past.

I still have a lot of room to improve - in managing my time, my mood, and my supervisor. But I'm certainly in a better place than I was when I started this thread so thought would come back and say a big thank you to you all!(up)

Hey, glad to hear it's going well! And a couple of chapters in a couple of months is excellent progress!!(up) Took me about a month per chapter too, so I think you're travelling along really well. It will get done!

It is so wonderful to read of someone who was in the situation I am in (regards supervisor, motivation, lack of critique etc) and see how things have changed for them and they are doing so great. Well done and thanks for sharing so I know it's possible to get places too! Thanks all for the useful ideas too, I'm sure you'll be glad to know they're helping more than one person.

Now back to those tomatoes (my little break-over alarm went off - Love that!)

Good luck Mathkitty! Glad this thread helps you too! To be honest I"m still a long way from where I want to be. I still haven't got a realistic timetable for when I'll finish and I still need to work on managing my supervisor. (I haven't had a meeting for almost 3 months and still haven't got feedbacks on work that I sent 3 months ago... but I'm working on this piece of work, and as soon as it's done I'll email it in and request a meeting and bug him about feedbacks for my previous work). And I can definitely be more productive. But I just have to stop beating myself up all the time (which itself contributes to my motivation problem) and stay positive. As I read on some productivity guru website: "aim for progress, not perfection".

Thanks Sue yes i guess it will get done one day afterall. I've recommended the tomato timer to friends and family too. Such simple concept and yet so useful.