Hi, I am an engineering PhD student. Only 6 months into my work. My PhD is in a different area/sector than what I studied (structural engineering). I am not from UK, though I did my MSc 2 years back here so not completely new to the country.

Although I know that these forums are full of quitting threads, I still feel I should try and get all the thoughts out of my head in written form. I will try and give a short background and reasoning for my doubts. Also some overview of how potentially will quitting affect my future. I will try and write in general terms and avoid giving names etc. Hopefully this post will help others in some way and myself as well. Anyway, so here starts my story:

Warning: This thread might actually end up being very long (multiple posts) and potentially unstructured, since I am writing it as I think.

After deciding to go for a PhD, I began my long search for various opportunities. It took me a couple of months to discuss several of these with potential supervisors until I got asked to apply for one which seemed quite interesting and got in. So, my PhD would initially seem like a dream to some, it is multidisciplinary in nature (though keep reading), is industry sponsored (includes spending 2 years with them, very large corporation), good money for a PhD. After all the paper work, interview, I end up starting from January this year. First month went by rather slowly, nothing to do, just had to read, introduce myself to things in my research center. By this time I still had no real idea on what I am supposed to do, I had my talks with supervisors, have gone through a good pile of journal papers on the topic (which I thought was the topic at the time). My supervisor seems very decent, he is a professor, very high up here in the university. I am his like 38th or so PhD student. He likes to give quite long monologues, sort of like moral stories and etc. Though he is a lot like your typical politician - you can hardly extract any real information out of what he has said. Co-supervisor is rather quiet and does not say much (probably because my supervisor used to be his supervisor when he did his PhD).
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Second month started, together with my supervisor we went to visit the industrial sponsor. The whole visit was rather controlled, I got all the usual corporate nonsense presentation, introduction to other 2 PhD students already present there from another uni who gave short presentations on their work. This is probably where I first started to have doubts. These presentations were complete BS to be honest, I did not like what I saw and have no interest in what was shown. But the industrial sponsor rather made it clearly that they are happy with their progress and work and want to see more of that. After leaving I had a talk with my supervisor to get more details on what was expected of me and how my PhD description connects to that. Barely got any useful information. Industrial sponsor wanted me to relocate to their place (different city) as soon as possible. Due to graduate school requirements to finish some workshops/seminars, lectures etc, I could not do that before end of May. My professor had tried to keep me in uni until mid autumn (initially it did not raise any suspicion but read on). I managed to get my way and relocate way sooner (in a sense, thank God I did). Industrial sponsor wanted me to make a few 2 day visits before I relocate permanently. This was needed for handover sessions (other PhD students there were leaving before my start date).

Anyway, so back in uni, I did some work on some of the work that I knew was partly needed for my PhD that my professor asked me to look into. Even though I did not really enjoy some of those things I knew this was just the beginning and is mostly just to introduce myself to certain things. All seemed fine, had weekly talks with my supervisors. Was assured that I will be doing what was written in my PhD description. Discussed how my work should look like in the end, etc.

Time for the first individual 2 day visit to industrial sponsor. Saw many many things I did not like, was introduced the way they do work and more general corporate nonsense. At this stage lots of warning bells starting ringing in my head. I could not see how what I will be doing at my industrial sponsor connect to what my PhD is supposed to be about. None of it interested me. After getting back to uni, I started raising these issues more often to my supervisor, but I got the whole relax, don't worry, trust me approach. I feel like I am treated like a child, like I was a first year undergraduate. This started irritating me but I hid that. Even though I did not get the answers I wanted, I chose to trust my supervisor and continue. It was still too early to judge.
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Roughly 4 months had passed, I was feeling really miserable, trying to keep going and "trusting" others that things will change for the better.

May 2013, got back from second visit to industrial sponsor. At this point I knew that I should quit, my intuition was telling me to quit now, before I rent an apartment and relocate. But in the end I allowed myself to be pressured into continuing (don't ask how, I am still trying to figure that part out) since it was only a few weeks before I should move. Found an apartment me and my girlfriend liked and we took it, though because I was from outside of UK and could not pass the reference checks I had to pay 6 months in advance to the letting agency to get the property. I did not like this one bit, considering that I had strong doubts anything would change. I was not interested in what I was supposed to do, not saying that I was incapable of doing it but being motivated enough would be very difficult.

Starting at my industrial sponsor. Immediately, first day, I got introduced and required to quickly learn many things, none of which are anything related to my PhD or engineering at all. They related to administration tasks etc. Went to several meetings as an observer, was told to take notice of certain things (again, mostly administrator related, some to the work they wanted me to do). I finally got my reality check, I was too focused on caring about my PhD that I did not see how other PhD students were treated and that most of their work was related to administration activities, and other tasks that are normally done by fulltime permanent employees who get paid salaries. Did not know how to approach my industrial supervisor (project leader) regarding all of my concerns but life works in a funny way... So during one company meeting, in front of some other employees, she says to me that we should together talk to my supervisor and get him up to speed on what I should be doing and what they need (completely ignoring the fact that there are other interests outside theirs). Instead of saying "yes, ok etc", I made a polite comment that I also would like to discuss my PhD needs. That appeared to not go well with her, since after the meeting she called me for a private chat in one of the empty meeting rooms. She appeared as if she will go into nervous convulsions. Started talking to me about how I should never talk with her like that in front of others, should always talk in private and pretty much just never undermine her authority (she did not say those exact words but it was clear from that moment). At that point I mentioned I had strong concerns regarding my PhD.
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Next morning she called me in for another meeting and I got the whole corporate approach, she put down a working agreement between uni and them on my PhD and said that if I do not like what is written there, I should leave immediately. I glanced through it and next day we had a group phone conference call with my supervisors, industrial supervisor. I did not say to my supervisor that I will be quitting but my industrial sponsor knew this since I already told her. The whole phone call was a complete joke. Everyone discussed my PhD description (which to be honest is a lot like a politician’s speech, few words to hang onto) and came to a conclusion that that is exactly what I will be doing at my industrial sponsor. I pointed out all key areas describing what should be my focus and I did not get a single firm response. So ultimately it ended with some details, once I clarified how I interpret that description. Sponsor said that I will not be allowed to work with any geometry here and instead of focusing on higher fidelity methods, I would be working with low to medium fidelity tools, methods and on top of that focusing on things are of no interest to me. Again I got the don't worry approach, just do this and that, all will be fine, don't look too far ahead into the future from my academic supervisor. Seriously, my frustration was immense. After the call, industrial supervisor said I should stay, give it a try, it is a great opportunity and all that. I almost burst into laughter remembering how just the day before she went all corporate on me :D. I listened to her talk, allowing myself to relax a bit until we got to a point where I asked her about my work time. The answer was that I should only do work related to their needs (most of it is sensitive and cannot be published) while I am at the office and that it is not her concern when I do my PhD work. Considering they want me to come in at 8 in the morning and leave at 5:30 in the evenings, this meant doing any PhD work on weekends. I finally said that this PhD is essentially cheap labour, since most of the work I do is not for my PhD. She started to appeal to my conscience, saying it had cost them a lot of money (they only pay roughly 1/3 of the studentship) and lots of time setting up my account (3 months for all rights, software, sever access, etc). Next day I figured out why she wanted me to stay so badly. I would be the only one remaining to actually do the technical administrator work, help others, basically spend half the time to help her do her job, become a personal secretary. It is not my problem that the company relies on PhDs to do certain tasks and overall has such a system that it takes them so long to get things done. Another issue I find is that I am a PhD, not an employee, so certain things that they want to impose on me do not seem very legal to be honest but that is a different story.
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I will tell her tomorrow a decisive "I quit". Afterwards notify my professor of my decision. Now, the only question for me is, should I return to uni to finalize the I quit now, or wait until July. Reason is that I would need to return the money that I have not yet used, so roughly 2 week’s worth, which would come in handy, considering how much this joke has actually cost me.
Advice to others... do not allow yourselves to be pressured into doing something, if you have doubts, raise them up asap, trust your intuition, if you feel something is wrong, address it immediately. I know that others have far better experiences with industry sponsors but be careful, do not become cheap labour for them. If they need an employee, they should hire one instead.

Some pros/cons that lead to my final decision:

Reasons to stay:
Would gain 2 years industry experience
Hopefully a PhD in the end
Rather good money
Some travel opportunities

Reasons to quit:
No interest in what I would really have to do
Industry sponsor treats PhD as cheap labour
Would only be able to work during weekends on my PhD
I feel very depressed, miserable

Other thoughts that came to mind:
What to do after quitting? I want a PhD but this whole affair has really left a bad taste... plus moving out of my current city means another large financial loss since I have already paid upfront lots of money for accommodation.
Getting a job... would need references, might be quite problematic. Also explaining why I quit PhD. I think I have very good reasons but some of them might not go so well with some employers. I am rather weary of large corporations now as well…
I have relocated here from another country with my girlfriend, essentially dragging her into this mess. We lived for 6 months in one city and now relocating again from this would mean more chaos into our lives.
I will be locked out of this current industry sector for several years due to the nondisclosure agreements and my security clearance restrictions.
Money matters are uncertain.

I could go on for quite a bit, but I think this post is getting a little too long. Though I think one such story is needed since other posts barely describe their situation on why they want to quit and it is sometimes difficult to understand where doubts started to materialize. I consider this long post therapy for myself aswell :)

If I were to choose one main reason for quitting, I guess for me it would be lack of any interest in what I would end up doing. Money matters are of course important as well but my happiness and sanity are priority.

Overall, I know this is just my story and it is very individual, but if anyone else finds any comfort in what I wrote or helps them in any way, then I consider the time spent writing this was worth it. Sorry if I did not make myself clear in some places. I will try to answer any questions and will gladly engage in any discussion.

[End]

Hi evil seagull,

wow! that's a long post! Well, calm down.

First of all:
1. What does exactly your contract say? How much time do you have to spend in the office?

I know from other people doing an EngD that it can vary, some people spend a day or two per week in the office, some others just ignore them and never go to the office, and lastly some few never come to the uni (main reason being their offices offer lunch too :) Worse comes to worse, just spend the time you HAVE to (like a prison sentence) and then disappear.

2. Don't quit until you get a job. Nothing guarantees that you will find a job that is better than this corporate BS.

3. Talk with your academic supervisor. Explain to him that working full-time in an office is NOT a PhD, and he might be able to support you. I know of a person who fought with his sponsor for some reason, but our supervisor managed to keep him anyway.

So yeah, try to be calm and try to keep positive. It is not all that bad, as you already said, you get some professional experience too. Believe me, you will need it even when applying for academic jobs.

Hi, thank for your reply!

I might have put too much emphasis on how I will be treated instead of my research there but that's because I did not want to give away too many details on which company it is, etc. If I talk about my topic, it would be quite a giveaway to be honest :)

I can just say, that I hoped to focus mostly on CAD, geometry and FEA. Geometry was supposed to be a key aspect of my research, but my sponsor has pretty much made it clear that I will only be able to see at how they do it but not get involved with it. From what I see now, they actually needed a software developer/engineer since most of the work would be programming. I can code a bit but I really have no interest in that.

Btw, I am a PhD, not an EngD. I know that 2 years at industry sounds like an EngD though. What I signed is just an ordinary studentship, but what I found out from viewing the contract between the sponsor and uni is that I was supposed to be on an industrial CASE studentship, which usually involves relocation top-ups. Not a word on that in my contract.

Regarding time, it only specifies that I will have to spend 2 years there. No hours are given. I understand what you mean by just not showing up, but to be honest, it would put a knife between me and all my supervisors. As of now, things are still quite civil.

I have talked with my academic supervisor regarding my time there a couple of times now, all I got was don't worry.

If I had some interest in this research, I would probably accept all the other issues and just grind through this PhD.

Thanks for your thoughts! You do have a good point though, finding a job before I quit. [Sigh], if I had more time... since I'm leaving in a few minutes, I will have to think of that on the bus :/

Thanks again!

Sounds like a complex problem. I am wondering if anyone knows whether there is an independent body which represents PhD students? I am having problems with my supervisory team and also feel like quitting and can empathise with you - a career at stake it's quite a thought.

It is always difficult when your PhD and your relationship with supervisors is less than perfect but remember your PhD supervisor and yourself would have as much to say about your project as would an industrial supervisor. You are right in thinking that your role in industry as part of your PhD should not be all about doing admin support. It is probably OK for you to know about the workings of your industrial host but that's it. Your CASE studentship agreement should have some information about what is expected of you and most importantly of your industrial supervisor. If this information is not there, the research council which funds your research will do. If you feel that your university supervisor is not taking your concerns seriously enough, then you can go to your university to raise those concerns. Leaving a PhD is a very serious decision and I have no doubt you are weighing all aspects of your discussion butyou are really early on in your PhD and it may be worth exploring avenues to ensure your concerns have been addressed.

I have an article on FindAPhD which may have some advice which is useful. Keep writing on the forum and remember that you are not alone in this.
http://www.findaphd.com/student/study/study-51.asp

Best wishes
Nathalie