Hi everyone,

I've got a couple of friends who got a third in their undergraduate degrees but have gone on to get good marks in their respective master courses. I know they're interested in PhD study but won't be able to get standard funding. Is there anything you could suggest that I could pass on to them? They've asked me what I think before but I can't really say anything and don't really want to say there's no hope. I've been hinting at part time self funded and with teaching work on the side but I don't really know what else to suggest.
One of them is in Physics and the other Astronomy. My other thought is to maybe suggest they look into different areas of physics that might have more commercial funding.

There's no harm in them applying for bursaries/university studentships ... IF they did well in their masters than this would compensate for doing 'not-so-great' in their undergrad degrees.

How good were their MScs? If they had very good distinctions they might be able to get funding - otherwise not.

If I were them, I would apply for funded positions as advertised and just play on the good MSc and try to impress at interview.

Otherwise, self-funding, maybe by part-time with working - is the other option, as you say.

Well one of them is a year into a two year postgraduate one where they did all of the modules in the first year and got a merit I think. The other is halfway through a full time masters and in the courseworks has got marks in the 80s and 90s. However, obviously exams and project work will probably bring that down somewhat.

My understanding is that you're not eligible for STFC funding if you have a 3rd. 2:1 or 2:2 + Masters fine, but third's a no go even if you got a distinction in your masters. I'll suggest they have a look for bursaries and the such, that sounds like the best bet prior to the self funding part time 7 year long route!!

Just out of interest, which masters programmes are they on? I thought that you had trouble getting onto a masters without at least a 2.2, realistically a 2.1. Moreover, to go from a 3rd to a distinction, no disrespect to your mates, makes me question a little the quality of the masters they are on. The problem here is convincing a supervisor that you are keen and intersted whilst having only attained a 3rd. Almost a contradiction I feel.

Well I got a third in my BSc in one subject, did a masters in a slightly different subject and got a distinction. I found the masters easier, not necessarily because the content was easier but because I was alot more interested in the subject matter. I worked for a while and am now doing a PhD. Oh and also, I got funding for my Masters aswell. There's always a way. You just have to convince people its what you really want to do. I also think that by the time I did my masters I was more mature where as during my first degree I generally just "had a good time" . Maybe I was just lucky but I think a bit of determination helps so good luck to them!

Thanks pero12, what kind of funding did you get, was it research council or bursary funding?

In response to Adem, the masters courses are well respected and do usually ask for at least a 2:2. However, both of them had some issues that arose during their undergraduate degrees and were treated rather badly by their undergrad Universities. After looking at their individual circumstances, they were allowed admission to the course and are doing far better. In my experience so far in my masters course, its a hundred times better than my undergraduate course was with a hell of a lot more support and general interest in the students. Both universities are well respected.

I got research council funding for my PhD with industry sponsor aswell. For a PhD application they'll probably need two academic references so it might be a good idea that the person who writes the reference from their undergrad degrees is aware of the problems they had and is willing to write them a good reference. This alongside excellent MSc marks, a good reference from an academic in their MSc, a good attitude and good prep for the PhD interview should put them in a good position. It may be worth having a good chat with academics/supervisors on their MSc now aswell to discuss options - academics tend to have contacts and not only can offer advice but may also help prevent any applications being sifted in to the 'no' pile purely due to low undergrad marks. Hope it works out for them.

The difficulty is getting through the application screening stage. Some places (particularly if deluged with applicatiosn) will eliminate people purely on grades. A way to circumvent this is to get to know the prospective supervisor prior to submitting your application. By demonstrating your enthusiasm and motivation to them you try to get them onside so that they are looking for your application when it arrives. As they say, where there's a will, there's a way.