Hi all

This is my first post, as I haven't had too much of a break-down to complain about anything work-related... until now.

Some background. I am 2yr 8mth into my PhD meaning I have 4 months of funding left. Three years of funding was secured for my PhD, but I have four years in which to submit my thesis. It has been very slow, something which I'm sure most of you can relate. I am split between two universities 40 miles apart, and it has been completely up to me to make this split-site project work. My car, my petrol money, no travel expenses... you can imagine how this wears at my minimal PhD wage!

Anyway, I'm finally getting somewhere and the results are rolling in. I handed my first full (70 page) chapter in two weeks ago. Yesterday I met with both of my supervisors for our monthly meet. It was awful. I've never got on with my principal supervisor anyway, but yesterday she ripped me apart. Screaming at me where repeats weren't done, and asking my why some experiments hadn't even been attempted. This is, of course, because I'm doing the other 1 million experiments she's demanded of me, and I simply couldn't get round to it in my constant 14hr working days.

Can anyone relate?

At the end of the meeting she declared: "This is good data, solid data, and it's created a good story. The great news is that this work is publishable. Low impact, but publishable. However, you simply do not have enough data for a thesis, so we're going to need to sit down next week and discuss what your alternatives are."

I'm sorry, alternatives to a thesis? Two years and eight months in, and now she tells me that I need to start not thinking about getting a PhD. Just when I was doing well. I now have a complete lack of motivation, I do not want to see or even think of my lab, and I can barely think straight. I work so hard, and she knows it, yet she just doesn't seem to care what effects her nastiness has on my work.

I am not a quitter. Heck if I was - this PhD would have been abandoned two years ago. It's been very difficult. She feels I won't have enough data after three years, and is completely unwilling to make any moneys available to me to stay for three-six more months in the lab, as is my other supervisor.

I've never been so down, and I could really do with a little advice. I want a PhD, it's what I've always dreamed of. I am scared, alone, and I just don't know where to turn.

Any help or other experiences would be greatly welcomed. Thank you.

Hey Caffeined- sounds like you started your PhD exactly the same time as I did! I am the ultimate pessimist when it comes to myself, I just can't help it, so I know how you're feeling. But the thing that jumps out at me about your post is that you don't seem to have any idea what these alternatives might be- of course, you might have just not elaborated on what your sup said on your post- but could it be that the alternatives are nothing as devastating as not getting your PhD? Perhaps your sup has an idea for how you could collect more data, or conduct another study that would ensure you have enough data? If you've got good data, a good story, and it's publishable then that's great- sounds like you're most of the way there. I hear what you're saying about not being able to fund a 4th year- is there any way you could take on a part time job after your funding runs out and finish your PhD part time? From what you've said, it sounds like you've done a lot of the hard work and it would be a real shame not to finish it off and get the award that's within your grasp. I would wait and see what these 'alternatives' are. I can also relate to having difficulties with your sup- mine is 100% jekyll and hyde, and probably when you've finished your work with her you'll want to move on. But again, if you don't have too much left to do would you be able to tolerate her for a little longer? I think you need to get the full verdict (and possibly a second opinion) before you make any decisions! Best, KB

Hi KB thank you very much for your reply

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it seems that I'm most of the way there. After an absolutely torrid time at the start of my PhD I pulled things back and started to get results. I think this has been the biggest blow - hearing what she said after I've been doing so well. It hurts a bit you know?

As for misinterpreting what she said - I told myself that at first too. However, after the meeting I went out with my other (secondary) supervisor for a few drinks. I told him straight up what I thought, and asked him if it was unlikely I was going to be getting a PhD. He was very very cagey and kept saying "I don't want to step on your primary supervisors toes". Ultimately he said: "Yes. I do think it's possible. But you need..." x, y, and z.

Furthermore, he mentioned that my other supervisor doesn't feel I would survive the viva as I don't have enough knowledge of what I'm doing. I told him that I'm quite petrified of the woman, so whenever she asks me questions (more like... shouts at me and then stares and waits for a reply), I go to pieces. I think he understood. I wonder whether this comment will be fed back to her.

I'm going to meet with my academic supervisor (she is supposed to be someone I can go to if I have problems) next week. Not sure what to say to her though.

What's annoyed me is that every other PhD student in my lab got given four years, but she won't budge an inch for me. She throws thousands of pounds at pointless things, but won't give me until xmas...

I would definitely think about getting a job and continuing to work, yes. But this is not something I have broached with her yet. Hell, I'd work for free if it meant I'd get a PhD out of it. I'd work out a way!

I'll get that second opinion, and go from there.

Thanks once again.

She sounds like a right pain in the backside but unfortunately you get some like that! Some of them just like the feeling of power they think they have over you! As you have good results, a good story which is publishable that sounds like the ingredients for a PhD to me! Does she just have impossible standards as in you'll never have enough results for her or they will never be good enough for her! Or as she didn't do them they will never be good as good as hers!!! I got asked by my supervisor why my results didn't look like theirs as they didn't like my results?

I agree with KB - wait and see what the alternatives are. Maybe she was just blowing hot air to make an impact as you know many academics especially ones with the personality of your supervisor do not have great social skills and are unable to communicate very well. Maybe it was an off day and you happen to be the in wrong place at the wrong time so she took it out on you!

Good luck and I hope it's not as bad as you think it is! You are nearly there! She can't stop from taking a part time job if the funding runs out as you have to be able to support yourself!
(up) ;-)

======= Date Modified 30 May 2011 00:16:02 =======
I forgot to mention that some supervisors have their pet projects so if you are not doing them your research is worthless and not worth spending money or time on etc... There is not much you can do about this either unfortunately and it's very frustrating!!!! :-s

Thanks for your replies guys,

I feel that it is a mix of never going to be able to have enough results (every thesis produced through the lab by her reach the 300 page limit, and many have to ask the university for extra thesis space), and also yes my project was a pet project made by her that she was VERY excited about. Unfortunately I proved a lot of stuff wrong right from the off so it was a flawed project. She lost interest in it very quickly after this and moved on to new things. I, however, was stuck with it trying to make it work anyway. You don't get a lot of thesis-worthy results like this.

It's interesting because after going to other labs and seeing what theses look like there I've seen ones that are only 150 pages in length, three results chapters only ~30 pages each, not all novel may I add, and I really think this is totally achievable, maybe even for the funding deadline. Sadly, I'm not in those labs, I'm in hers.

I've done a huge great big day by day plan to show her that I think is do-able, and it will generate results enough for two thesis worthy (fairly chunky) results chapters. The third I'm not sure where it will come from yet, but surely yes - getting a part time job and working there for the fourth year will be aloud? The thing I'm worried about is that the house prices where I live are quite high, and really I need a full time job wage to pay rent and afford travel costs to both labs. So I don't know how this is going to work. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Cheers

Hey Caffeined! Well on the plus side it sounds as though you have a good relationship with your second supervisor, although it also sounds like he is a bit cautious about saying anything that might contradict your first sup (my sups are a bit like that- my second is scared of my first!). I completely understand the thing about going blank in front of your first sup as you're so nervous- it's not surprising given the situation. Is there any way you can get your second sup more involved and ask him about what you can do to ensure you get your PhD? Or maybe your academic sup could give you a less biased verdict of where you're up to and whether you need to do anything extra? I think you're right to go and see him/her- one thing I would do is to ask that your meeting is confidential. I once saw my PhD chairperson about issues I was having with my supervisor being extremely difficult and my sup found out I was going to have a meeting with my chairperson before it even happened, and went up to speak to her right before my meeting with her to make sure she got the first word in! I was fuming! But you know what- it still sounds like you are most of the way there and I think you have enough fight in you to keep slogging until you get there. I reckon if you can find someone else who is prepared to be involved with your thesis and give you some guidance though to the submission stage then you'll be okay- you've come too far to give up on it. Hope your meeting goes well, it won't be the first time they've heard about problems with supervisors! Good luck! KB

Hey again! Sorry- I think we posted at exactly the same time so I hadn't seen your last post when I wrote my last post! It really does sound like you're nearly there- and to be honest, it doesn't matter who your sup is- if your work is PhD worthy then you're okay. If she says you need to do a lot more work and you know you've done as much as people in other labs who have passed, then seek another opinion. You might well need a third results chapter to be sure you've done enough, but you can get that done. The money thing will be tough, and you'll have to find a PhD-work-life balance that works for you, but it will be doable if you don't have that much PhD left to do. Keep plugging away. KB