Hi all,

I found this forum a few weeks back and have been poking around since.

I'm an Australian doing a PhD in the Netherlands. I'm almost at the end of my first year and am currently preparing for my one-year review (audit). Progress has been slow due to:
* the issues involved with moving to a new country;
* I did my masters part-time whilst working (so for me research is more of a hobby than a job);
* I'm in a completely different field to my masters research and have no intention of continuing in this field, however the topic suits me perfectly;
* my supervisors are both Dutch which leads to an awful lot of misunderstandings, both culturally and linguistically;
* my Dutch colleagues don't like my Dutch accent and my other international colleagues don't like my English accent, so communicating with people is trying at times.

You get to a point where you think there's just too much against you. Even non-work activities (e.g. shopping) are exhausting.

Anyone else in a similar boat? :)

Hi Numbat

I am an American doing a PhD in England. I completely underestimated the toll and stress and strain of being in another country. You are right, that even the small tasks of daily life like shopping can feel overwhelming. I am now starting to feel in the groove of things, so to speak, but it can still be very tiring to negotiate daily life. I think Shani on here described that as part of culture shock, where you suddenly cannot even do the smallest daily tasks you used to take for granted.

I do not have the language barrier you have--but sometimes the difference in spoken British and American English is quite striking! And it is a wholly different culture, the way of getting things done and how people relate very different.

What part of Oz are you from? I lived in Sydney ( Northern Beaches) for a year as an exchange student in 5th form and have been back to visit several times! Love the country! Nearly ended up there instead of England at one point, but that is a long story!

It must be tiring for you: I was once in the Netherlands for a few weeks(related to my PhD), and I understand what you mean about shopping being tiring. I knew enough Dutch to get by in shops and cafes, but I fell into many embarrassing situations where I couldn't make myself understood and you get fed up of that (and end up staying in the hotel room).

Mind you it gave me sympathy with all the non-English speaking students that come here.

Sorry I don't have any practical advice, just general sympathy But is there an internatioal student's society where you are? Surely you can't be the only Australian?

Yes, the language barrier is shocking – I really wish I'd gone to England. I can never find things in the supermarket and I (used to) need Babelfish to understand cooking instructions. You don't think of little things like that. Also, the uni is still very Dutch, despite having a large international population.

I enjoy languages though and it's a good feeling when you negotiate something in Dutch. But the overheads involved in moving countries are amazing.

I'm from Melbourne, so I'm not a big fan of Sydney. Last I was there it reminded me of Melbourne – I think they’re very similar, except Sydney has that bridge and the opera house ...

There is a student's society, however PhD's here are employees, so we are not eligible to join. Also I'm not a big beer-drinking person, and that's all the students (and staff for that matter) seem to do here.

During the "about the uni" presentation at my introduction day, there was a pie chart showing where the foreign staff come from. Australia wasn't even on there – I made them add an Oceania slice and it turned out to be less than 1%, so I'm thinking there's a handful of us on staff. Most people I meet are from mainland Europe.

Sympathy is good – I don't get that from the Dutch

It may not sound very helpful, but see it as an opportunity to grow as a person and to extend your horizon. I moved from a central European country to the UK in 2004 and I found it very tough and difficult, in particular the language and cultural issues. Now, a few years later, I begin to realise how it has helped me to move on. I feel now that, if the opportunity arises, I could basically survive in any country and get through the initial difficulties.

I think this thread is very interesting. Could you provide some small examples of cultural difficulties you are facing in the Netherlands?

Oh yes the coat hanger bridge! Sydney has changed a lot since my innocent days on the Northern Beaches. I had a memorable New Years Eve at the Opera House, and my first "real boyfriend" when I was in Australia. Oddly enough I travelled to Holland the summer before I went to Australia, with a friend and her family, one of her parents was Dutch. I had my first kiss along a Dutch canal from a lovely Dutch boy--it was very romantic, even a rainbow while we were kissing!

I also remember trying to buy Gummi Bears in Germany...no one could understand my German.

I admire anyone negotiating a new country where the language is different. I find it challenging enough doing it in my native language--and the US and the UK are not that far apart in many things besides language, the legal systems are common law, and the US "identity" is heavily British oriented, with Americans viewing the UK as "home". That said, there are differences enough that it can be disconcerting, and I hate that feeling of oh no, I just did some social faux pas... but you don't know what...or people don't understand you.

I have to rein in my extrovert tendencies here! Well to an extent, but I decided to stop completely worrying about it, and just try to act like myself, while being aware that the environment is more reserved than the US. No one has been too weird about it. And I feel more at ease, and relaxed, instead of feeling like I have to measure each word and being afraid of making a mistake. I figure if I do, oh well, the worst that happens is someone says tut or tsk. Or pretends like they didn't see you.

My supervisor (here in the UK) is Dutch, and we don't have any language difficulties - he speaks English better than half the bloody undergrads - but he has told me that the Dutch are much more plain-speaking and direct than the English, and that he's had to tone that down a bit since he moved here. The example he gave was of someone having a disaster haircut: in the UK, everyone will make supportive noises and tell you how nice it looks, but a Dutchman will cheerfully tell you that you look ridiculous

Can you report your exam ? But even if you don't I'm sure everybody will understand the situation and still see your potentiel
Is it that hard to study in another country? I'm half way through my PhD and I'm looking to do a post-doc in the UK....is it being realistic?

Hi numbat,

Well, now you know you are not alone with this. I am a German doing my PhD in Australia and have had similar issues. It took me 2 years to adjust and this is me having lived in the UK, Ireland and the States before I came here. The trouble is perhaps with "being in academia". No offence, but it is generally not the most supportive environment. My advice to you would be to look for friends outside, join clubs, groups, whatnot. There, too, you are not alone. NL is also full of immigrants and expatriates except that it is not so obvious there. Search the internet for forums or support groups. If you in Amsterdam or Rotterdam, there will be lost of professionals from all over Europe. (cont)

(cont)

I can fully relate to your emotions. We get so lonely and desperate in a way that we look for someone to blame (them not helping the language problems, etc). I did that too until I slowly came to understand the Aussie culture, the way people think and WHY. The relation to the history of this country. It takes YEARS. Don't put too much pressure on yourself. Take your time. They say it takes 5 years. But its is (like someone also said) a life-changing experience.

If we can help somehow, let us know.

Good luck!
Cornelia

Another thing that helped me deal with the problem of "social faux pas" Olivia mentioned is to confide in someone who is a native. Confront the issue rather than evade it. Once you find NL friends specifically ask them what the best way of saying things or doing them is. I found a great Aussie girl here who I can ask anything even seemingly simply things like how to phrase things in an email, how to respond to something, how to behave, act, etc. I can also ask her if any of my behaviour offends her or is odd. Sounds strange considering that we are adults but living in another country is a bit like learning a few things from scratch again, making baby steps. (cont)