I don't just mean at PhD level I mean in your life in academia.

Just got a piece of writing back where I got 17 out of 22 which I thought was quite good, however one of the markers just listed a whole load of negative comments on my writing.

It is some of the most useless feedback I have ever had. None of it is constructive and none of it really offers helpful advice. I feel I more or less know how to improve my own writing but it would be nice for feedback to be useful.

Has anyone ever had this problem before? It doesn't really worry me how useless the feedback is but it would be great to hear other peoples' opinions. As it happen lots of people in my department are unhappy with their feedback even when they are happy with their marks.

It feels like this marker has some sort of a problem with being a positive and helpful person as if that would somehow be the wrong thing to do! I can say this because I know him in person and have spoken to him a lot face-to-face.

All the best.

What was the feedback? Just interested, generally I receive 'negative' feedback but it's constructive. I like to think I give constructive feedback but maybe I don't. What did they say?

This is a direct quote: "Sounds like bullshit".

Then he (the 'marker'- like a marker you have at school?) is at least assuming you understand English. Is that the query?

I will be honest and say that after having marked countless essays and other pieces of work, I have been tempted on numerous occasions to write similar negative comments out of frustration. It doesn't seem to matter how much extra support I provide students, they make the same mistakes I repeatedly tell them not to. This is then exasperated when they refuse to utilise the extra support (such as essay writing and referencing guides I've prepared for them) and then get angry about 'losing marks' because "I didn't tell them they shouldn't do that" despite it being Academic Writing 101.

But I digress. Some markers aren't very good at 'sugar-coating' their thoughts on undergraduate work (I'm assuming you are an undergraduate?). While being more nice and helpful is generally a better way to go (I always ensure my feedback is constructed in a way that is not negative, and I would never write a comment like that!) you as a student need to prepare yourself for the different types of feedback you'll receive, some which will not be covered in honey and sugar.

Many markers are also subjected to quite negative feedback on their own work, and they learn to provide feedback in this manner. So if they have a PhD supervisor who uses very frank and direct comments such as the one above, they themselves might utilise this method in their own marking, believing this to be the appropriate way to go.

Whether you continue in Academia or not, you'll receive feedback in a variety of forms, some which you'll find overly negative, and some positive. While I think it's better to have more positive feedback, we often only point out the bad in work and never the good. When you enter industry (or stay in Academia) you'll encounter these ranges, and will need to learn to 'build a hard shell' and adjust yourself accordingly.

I will say though that the comment "Sounds like bullshit" is out of line and not appropriate for undergraduate work.

Sorry you've lost me.

No I am a PhD candidate with 8 publications, an MLitt, a PGDE (with 8 years teaching experience), and an MA (Hons).

I find it interesting that so many people in education don't seem to have ever learned how to give effective feedback.

Thanks for your advice on the hard-shell.

Are you a GTA?

I agree that's not useful or appropriate feedback and needs clarified. If I got a comment like, 'sounds like bullshit' I would probably think it was a comment more on my argument/reasoning rather than the writing itself, but you really do need more information for it to be any use.

Part of the issue, is there's often no clear definition of what "effective feedback" actually is. Also, it's really, really hard to give feedback that all students will appreciate.

Some students want feedback to be a justification of their mark - if you don't provide it in that framework, they get angry and think they can argue the mark received. "Why did I only get this mark? There's only 2 negative comments in the feedback?" and then you explain that actually, there was plenty more wrong with the work, you were just picking up 2 of the crucial aspects.

Others, want to use the feedback to improve their work, but what if they're never going to do a similar assessment ever again?

Giving feedback and marking is absolutely, hands down, the hardest part of my job as a Teaching Fellow. I'm trying to get better, I've been to training, I've read lots of literature but it's really difficult to get right, especially when there is no agreed departmental definition of what feedback should resemble.

Agreed - I marked a pile of essays last year and was advised to 'give them a mark and a sentence or two if you want'. This led to a few grumbles from students who couldn't see how the 'sentence or two' justified all the marks they'd lost, and I ended up writing mini-essays to explain it properly to them!

My approach now is to give a few statements to each individual student, to act as some of the justification of their mark. Like, you didn't do X, Y or Z. And then general feedback which is detailed and explains where students went wrong to the whole class. So in the general feedback I'll explain why X, Y and Z were important for getting the marks.

Yes, it requires the student to synthesis which parts of the feedback relate to their particular assessment - but I think this is good, because it's teaching reflection skills and improving their knowledge in other ways. But, most importantly it's easier for me, and saves some of the arguments.

Unfortunately, the students still complain. I think they are always going to complain though. I know I didn't realise how hard marking was until I had to do it myself.

One tip would be to frame everything in positive language. If you can't find anything positive to say then your probably shouldn't be marking their work.

I disagree. I think that is in part, babying these students and also disregards the fact that many students produce appalling work in which nothing nice can be said (I have marked plenty). Reviewers in academia can be pretty harsh as well, especially PhD thesis examiners (I had one good one and one harsh one).

There is also the issue of 'what constitutes positive feedback?" For some people, this needs to be everything said with a happy face and smile, while for others, its just constructive but not sugarcoated or re-framed in any light. Some even do better with negative feedback, there's really no right or wrong way other than inappropriate remarks like the one you received (which you have every right to be upset about!)




I use a really in-depth qualitative rubric. This tends to help with the explaining a number of things that shouldn't need to be repeated in written comments.Then the comments I provide can be much more specific to their understanding of the actual content, as opposed to a mini-essay in itself. I know that as a marker for a unit the templates you get are dependent on the lecturer so you can be stuck with nothing.

If you end up doing your own units I would highly recommend spending some time in developing a rubric for assessing the work, I find it generally pretty helpful and haven't had too many issues regarding it.

"Absolute rubbish laddie. Get on with your work!"

... and what gives you the right to have an opinion? Do you have a teaching qualification?