Firstly sorry I haven't been around much recently to use my tomato accountability thread and reply to my thread about seminar tutoring, will get back into it!

I've been so stressed with my PhD over the last week, I have a feeling that I am just not good enough, and my supervisors are probably thinking the same although they haven't said anything...yet. Waiting for next week's supervision.

I'm eight months in now so I can't say I still need to settle in or anything like that, and I feel like I'm lagging behind. At my university we have to have a Research Plan Approval (RPA) meeting after five months, which is basically a panel meeting to review a research plan (like an extended proposal), to ensure that it is methodologically sound and viable. According my supervisor who came in with me to take notes, my meeting was difficult and the questions were like those that would be asked in a viva. Fortunately she said she was really pleased with how I handled them, however ultimately I didn't get through the RPA as the panel wanted me to make significant alterations.

I did those and submitted the second proposal six weeks later, then didn't hear anything for a while. My supervisors said that they were really pleased with my proposal and that it was really encouraging. I got on with preparing to start my literature review as my supervisors were both away over the summer. I emailed them last week to arrange a supervision and they said that they'd had a meeting with the previous panel about my second proposal and it had been agreed that it still needed work. I was gutted as I had worked so hard on the corrections and thought that it was much better. They did say that there was some good writing and that the improvements I had to make were quite usual at this stage, but i just feel so deflated. They are now doing a bit of editing for me before my supervision next week, which makes me feel awful, like as soon as I see it I'll mess it up.

I'm so nervous about next week's supervision as I keep worrying that they'll tell me I'm not up to the challenge of a PhD and have a go at me, for want of a better expression. I feel like I've failed them. I really enjoy my project and a lot of other academics within the university are interested in it as well, but I just don't feel good enough any more.

Sorry for the long post and I hope that it makes sense, any advice during this tough time is appreciated. Nx

Hi Natassia

I did notice you were not around, you were missed :-)

that sounds like a very tough procedure to go through just to basically be allowed get on with your PhD. It sounds like the panel have no doubts about you per se but perhaps in the viability or feasibility of what you have been proposing? Possibly are you being too ambitious in what you hope to achieve as a single researcher? Very often people have a list of research questions when in effect any one of them would make for a viable, robust PhD. Maybe scaling it back a bit might convince them more.

Good luck with your supervision meeting next week. As for feeling not good enough, join the club:-( Crippling self-doubt means that I never sleep properly the night before my meetings and given that I (fingers crossed) hope to submit during September, that has made for a very anxious three years. Each meeting I dread that this will be the one where I'm found out and told to pack my bags. It hasn't happened yet but even when my supervisor sends me an email, I click it open with my heart beating:$ Pathetic really for an 'old married woman' but there you go!

You're a four star forumite well able for your PhD (up)

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Hey Natassia! You must be so frustrated :( I know this probably sounds like a bit of a ridiculous thing to say and possibly won't make you feel any better at the moment, but by the time this proposal is through (which it will be soon), it will be damn good, and there will be very few holes to pick in it. I don't think for a minute that your sups have lost their faith in you- they must believe that your work is sound or else they never would have let you submit it. Other people will always find flaws, and I bet your sups are just as hacked off as you that you keep having to make changes. I know from dealing with reviewers' comments from journal article submissions and of course my recent viva that research is often (unfortunately) just about keeping people happy, acknowledging the points they make and being able to demonstrate that you have taken them on board, and then moving on when you've satisfied everyone as best you can. And that's exactly what you will do. Some of the recommendations will make your work better, and some may not, but it is better to deal with them now then have to deal with them in your final viva.

The system at my uni is a lot more slack- we have to pass upgrade meetings but they're basically just a laid-back chat about your work, so I never ad to go through anything very scary until my viva. But my project changed so many times over the 3 years because my initial plans were not feasible in some way, and this was never picked up on until I found it out for myself. So I guess they're just trying to keep you on the right track from the start. No-one is going to boot you out, you've just got to grit your teeth and be patient, and you'll get through it. It will also stand you in good stead for future reviewers' comments on your work and your viva- you'll be so used to being questioned that you'll knock'em dead at your viva :)

Good luck with the next meeting, KB

Hi Natassia - it doesn't sound like you have anything to worry about to me. I had a similar experience with my upgrade. I didn't pass it outright but have been asked to resubmit some parts. At first I wasn't sure what to think about this but on reflection I am very glad that any weaknesses are being flagged up now rather than at the viva. I think it is a good sign that they are looking at your work so closely even at this stage, given some of the scary posts I have read on here!

Hi Natassia,
I just want to agree with what everyone has said especially Ady, we all get really anxious with meeting sups. and I - like Ady- am traumatised when i recieve emails from my sup even now at the end of the journey I still get a racing heart etc ... now to your concerns it is good that the issues are being ironed out now- not 2 years later :-)... I dont think you have anything to worry about ... Upgrades are just a formality, they know you can do it.. so just bolster your self confidence a little bit and take it one day at a time.. you will be fine .. remember it looks good for them as well if you actually complete your phd so they will want to support you :-)
All the very best.

I agree with people who say self doubt is common. I'm generally pretty confident but used to get nervous before meeting my supervisors. I remember coming in early in my first year to prepare for a meeting and having to sit outside as no one was there yet - Then he didn't even look at what I'd been working on! I also dreaded handing over my first chpaters as they hadn't really seen anything I'd written.

I also agree with whoever said it's good that issues are ironed out the proposal at this stage. It will help in the long run, and give you a clear idea of why you've done things when it comes to writing up. It's easy to take criticism to heart but I'm sure it's not meant in a way that you're not good enough.

This may not help, but... I would have killed for that kind of supervision and assessment in my first year (or subsequent years). Really, even if I was told I needed to resubmit- hell, even if I was told to give up- it would have been better than what I've ended up doing, which is rumbling along ineffectually in no particular direction, not producing anything and having nobody asking me to produce anything. I honestly think you should be grateful that your university is doing it right.

I think your worries are quite normal, though, and it sounds like you can get through this. It sounds like you know what you're doing, and that people know about/are interested in what you're doing, which is more than I've ever managed in three years. So I don't think there's too much to be concerned about. If you're genuinely worried, though, there is always the bottom line argument. One thing I was told before- I'm not sure how true this is, but I certainly suspect it applies in my own situation- is that universities, when push comes to shove, do not want students to leave. Students=income. I suspect then that this is about making sure you're completely ready, not any kind of final test.

Forgot to add... it's not just students=income, it's also that students leaving screws up those precious statistics- particularly if the student has funding, because the funding councils tend to take an interest in where their money goes...

"Does Anyone Else Feel Like They're Not Good Enough For Their PhD And Not Doing It Justice?"

In short, yes.

I'm 23 months down the line and just submitted by upgrade from MPhil to PhD. I wish I knew what I was doing, and a lot of the time I'm floundering and not really sure what I should spend time on. Supervisors are great but I always feel bad by not going to them with either some (good) new work, or questions and queries - A lot of the time I feel that my results are either not very good, or I don't understand them enough to be able to ask questions! I'm in a slightly new area (for me at least) and nestled between 3 relatively large fields so I feel out on a limb. I want to feel like I'm making a contribution, but I kind of feel blindfolded and not sure where to go.

The (perceived, in my eyes) lack of progress makes me feel that it's _my_ fault the project hasn't made leaps forward - like, anyone else doing the same project would have finished it already or made worthwhile progress. It's very demoralising, and makes me feel stressed and panicky about work each day is I worry that today'll be another day where nothing progresses, or the day that my supervisors suss me out that I'm just a fraud and kick me out!

At least I can offer some solidarity. Almost a year in my PhD, and I am redrafting my lit review for the 4th time. I have worked like a slave from dust til dawn, but I am nowhere near ready for my upgrade.

I often feel that if my supervisor had a drunk monkey jumping on broken keyboards in the next room, it would have made substantially more progress than me. I am not even allowed to moan, I knew what I was getting into when I said (with a lisp) " I want to do a pi aith di!"

Hi, thank you all for the replies, the support is great as ever and means a lot. I will try to reply to all the points that have been made. I've also just had a PM from a company offering to write up my thesis for me, I don't think I'm at that stage yet though! :-)

Like some of you have said - I think it is a really good idea that my university has a clear monitoring system for PhD students. It does feel like we are constantly being scrutinised sometimes, but it certainly ensures a consistently good quality of supervision. In my department anyway, I haven't heard of any major complaints (except for the frequent harshness of the academic who led my panel...hopefully I won't have too much to do with her though). I am the sort of person who likes to know where they stand, and I think most people are like that, so the monitoring processes are useful for that. I like to be in contact with my supervisors and know what is going on.

But at the same time I think they can make you nervous, I am a worrier anyway and so these exacerbate that. But I would definitely worry more if I never had any contact with my supervisors and was left alone. My main concern in my original post was that I'd be made to quit my PhD and be offered a chance of an MPhil instead, but I am more reassured that that *probably* won't happen. I am just scared because one of my supervisors hasn't replied to an email I sent her about a writing course last week, and the admin assistant hasn't sent me an ethics form that I requested last week - but they could be entirely unrelated. I hope that is just me overthinking things.

One week to go until my supervision, I will keep you all updated.

Thanks again, Nxx

Hey I PMed you, go check :)

Thanks... but I don't think it sent properly :-(

Am in town briefly till Tues if you want to meet and get my oh so brilliant advice on dealing with phd stuff. wrote more on PM.

Hi Natassia, I am sorry that you are undergoing too much of stress but I think in a way it is good that you are undergoing this at the moment when you have enough time to recover in case if there are any shortcomings with the project or with the supervision. I am sure you will realize this soon in the future.

I am into a broad topic because of which my research since the beginning went in all directions. I was a bit unlucky in getting the key tool for my project which has been disastrous. I have come all the way through solving so many problems, trouble shooting and so on. Each and every day has been challenging and painful. I have even slept on my office floor in my sleeping bag for few days as I had to work continuously (I stayed 40 min away from my work and I don't have a car now I live close to my work place at walking distance) :-( Sometimes I feel that I am good for nothing and in case if my supervisors had selected someone else instead of me that person would have submitted by now :-(

From what you have said above, I think you are doing great. You will be fine. All the very best and am sure your supervision will go alright next week (up)

P.S: Zinar7 - I can relate myself to each and every word you have mentioned in this thread!