Hey all!

Oh, I'm so frustrated!

I went for a job interview today at another uni (a research associate post) for a job I really really wanted. The interview went well, and I got a phone call from one of the interviewers a few hours later. She said that although the interview was excellent, I hadn't got the job, because it went to somebody with two doctorates (a PhD and a practitioner doctorate)! The only actual specification regarding academic qualifications on the advertisement was a good BSc!

On the plus side, she said that they were really interested in offering me a position -they have strongly recommended that I apply for another very similar post that will be coming up within the same team in a couple of months time (apparently I would have a 'very strong' chance) and also offered to work with me on a fellowship proposal that would get me into their team if I was up for it. So I'm kinda pleased that they want me, but also rather gutted and a little despondent. Who's to say that next time there won't be someone with 3 PhDs?!!!

Arrrrgh. Oh well...time to concentrate on passing my PhD!
Best, KB

I'm very sorry to read that KB but you're not alone. I didn't even pass the application stage for a research associate post recently. Take heart, at least you got an interview and it sounds as though they really, really liked you at interview.

Keep trying!

I just got beaten into second place on a post for a job I had covered previously (study skills coach). I can only surmise the person who got it wasn't as qualified and they could pay them less. Then I got rejected before even being shortlisted from another on Monday. I am applying for at least three jobs a week and getting very little in return. Very despondent. I do think though that you should take heart from the feedback and be very optimistic for the near future...good things are afoot!!!

Sorry to hear about it. This job hunting lark is quite frustrating.
I've shied away from applying for things recently, trying to focus on the thesis at the moment. Hopefully we'll all get there soon, but it is quite scary seeing how many poeple are struggling to find jobs.

Not seen the person who got the post we were both interviewed for, but think they're starting soon. Am quite curious to meet the oposition!

Yeah, it is a bit scary! Both interviews I've done were apparently really good but that's not good enough when the opposition has an extra post-doc or doctoral degree under their belt. Frustrating. It seems ages since that interview Catalinbond- I would've thought he/she'd have started by now! Well I'm going to give up the job hunt until I've finished my PhD now- only two weeks until submission and three until viva. And I really want this other post that the interviewer was on about today...I don't want to apply for other stuff until I've given that post my best shot! KB

======= Date Modified 21 Jul 2011 07:13:17 =======
Hi Keenbean,

Best of luck with your submission!

The level of competition for jobs is truly frightening!

Depending on funding and finishing this PhD, I may well fit into the two Dr box :$ in two years time! (PhD and Professional Doctorate in Health Psychology). For me, I want to retrain, move away from research and complete my stage 2 training from my first MSc and a Professional Doctorate in Health Psych is just one way of working as a Chartered Health Psychologist. The Professional Doctorates are very different from PhDs and involve building up a work portfolio via work placements to demonstrate competencies in certain areas as well as completing a small thesis (in relation to a PhD) and other assignments ( literature review etc etc). Unlike Clinical Psychology, Health Psychology is a very new and evolving area and I would love to get involved as it fits in with my previous health psychology job.

I have met quite a few senior level professionals with two doctorates (a PhD and a Doctorate in Clinical Psychology) or (a PhD and a Professional Doctorate in Health Psychology) and even people with two professional doctorates (Doctorate in Clinical Psychology and a Doctorate in Health Psychology)  and they all tend to lead or manage large psychology departments!



This looks really positive Keenbean- Congratulations! Although I received an interview for a private tuition post, I'm not even reaching the shortlist for interviews for research posts or non graduate jobs which is very distressing! I've deliberately combined my studying with work placements/jobs so I'm struggling at the moment. Yesterday I applied for non graduate jobs (Support Worker, Care worker) by omitting all of my postgraduate qualifications. I really resented cutting them out, but lets see if I'll have more luck with it.



At my last post, my supervisor had three doctoral level qualifications. She had a PhD and was a Chartered Health Psychologist and a Chartered Clinical Psychologist. Needless to say, but she was running the department! Scary stuff!

:$

======= Date Modified 21 Jul 2011 08:07:21 =======

Hi Dazednconfused!

I can really relate to this post. I'm also very despondent, confused and frustrated. I'm just not making the shortlist for any graduate jobs and it's incredibly frustrating and disheartening.

From the feedback I'm receiving, shortlisters rejected my application because their looking for 'junior graduates' at the start of their research careers, or they feel that a 'junior research assistant post' will add nothing to my post doc career or worries about moving on to more senior posts as soon as I complete my thesis corrections and receive my PhD, hence rejecting me outright.  I read somewhere that recruiters may feel threatened by employing someone with more experience and qualifications, which on some level I can sort of understand. Recruiters may make adverse initial snap judgements on applicants with postgrad qualifications, assume that someone with X qualifications and experiences would probably not 'gel' with other workers, or maybe assume that someone with a PhD would never be happy working in a non graduate job which brings round the 'risk of moving on/ leaving early' category. Who knows! I can see what their getting at though. In the current climate, recruiters probably want long term commitment from applicants (especially after forking out for expensive training packages!) and perhaps the money issue comes into play- ie paying less for less qualified and experienced applicants.

I even approached my old admin agency that I worked for during my undergrad summer vacations and they also rejected me because they feel my CV is too 'specialised'- whatever that means! It's soul destroying having to look and apply for jobs with applicants without any university qualifications at all, which makes me feel like I've completely wasted my time! In person, I'm not arrogant or boastful about my qualifications (I tend to keep it quiet!) but perhaps I'm sending out scary vibes from my CV and personal statement (and maybe from my online posts!).

I have however received positive responses from private tuition posts which I will look into. I'm envious of anyone with job interviews! In the meantime, I'm concentrating on my psychology related volunteering work, finishing my thesis corrections and very reluctantly sending out abridged CVs. Probably a good idea to reduce and restructure my personal statement as well.

Best of luck fellow job hunters and pre viva PhD candidates (sprout) 8-)

Hey Pineapple! Yeah, I know the practitioner doctorates are very different- I have several friends doing the DClin at the moment who all finished their PhDs last year, and most of the staff in our department doing clinical research also have the DClin. It's a route I have thought about going down, just to make the research side of things easier, but that would be the only reason I'd be doing it. For now I'm gonna do my best to get in place in this team- I really want to work with them and it's a good while since I've felt so excited by something, so I know it would be a good move for me. But I really didn't have much idea of how tough things would be with the job-hunting. I knew things were bad, but I didn't realise how bad! KB

To be honest I'm inclined to agree with the employers on this one. A research assistant post is for someone with no more than a masters and not an extensive amount of research experience. As an employer I would be worried about the candidate leaving the post early or neglecting their duties to pursue their own research agenda. If you want to convince them otherwise you'll have to put a strong case forward from the outset.

So it seems to me silly to be disappointed at not getting anywhere with such posts. Sure, give it a try - you never know. And if the application gets nowhere it's still a good way of making contacts and maybe sowing seeds for the future. But don't let it add to the doom and gloom of job hunting. Success comes when there is a good match between the person and the person spec/job description, so don't take to heart when something partially suitable doesn't work out.

I agree with you Hazy, although I was speaking to a research fellow in my current department last week who told me that all the research assistant positions in the last couple of years had gone to people with PhDs. It wasn't like that a few years ago- there were and still are plenty of RA positions taken by people with no PhD, but the trend seems to be changing, at least at my current uni anyway!
Best, KB

Hmmm - sometimes things don't do what they say on the tin! And I do think it's worth giving it a shot. But job hunting can be generally dispiriting anyway, so I don't think it's wise to let rejections from jobs for which one is not well matched to the job spec get to you too much. Better to save the emotional energy for something else.

Thanks Jane- your reply is really helping me put this all job app rejection stuff into perspective!

KB,

It wasn't the number of doctorates that got them the job but probably the range of skills the two different training paths covered. Also the fact that you haven't submitted yet may also be a significant drawback. In anycase you shouldn't beat yourself up and you got amazing feedback by the sounds of things.

I am a bit suprised though that someone with either an MD or DClinPsy (you are in psychology or psychiatry aren't you?) plus a PhD had to go for an RA post. I would have thought that kind of applicant would be able to go for all sort of clinical posts and negotiate research bits, for far more money too. I can't imagine that being a common occurance, but it may be at higher levels. I know a few grants only open to medics or prefer them(e.g. Wellcome Trust).

Yeah, I know it wasn't the actual number of doctorates, I was just frustrated that having one doctorate apparently isn't enough lol! I completely get why the doctorate in clinical psychology was a massive advantage- the post was a post-doctoral research associate post involving intervention work and it was in line with either a post-PhD or a post-DClin salary. I am due to submit in 2 weeks with my viva in 3, so I know that wasn't the issue (and they confirmed that post-interview). One of the interviewers has contacted me today with info about the other post and is going to phone me with more details asap so I'm hoping I will have a shot with that one!

Best, KB