Hello all, I'd really appreciate any thoughts, ideas or similar experiences to my own.

At least on paper, I carry the delightful stigma of the dreaded 'Failed PhD'. To elaborate, after a very successful MSc at a red brick University, I was offered a PhD at the local polytech university in a area I was interested in. I was desperate to avoid 'the dole' and thought the project sounded interesting and took it in 2007.

To put it bluntly, the whole thing was a utter disaster. Anything that went wrong, more or less did, some of it was my fault, some was personal circumstances, some was the Universities fault and some was just bad luck. My biggest regret was that I didn't quit when the project turned into some amalgamation of my original project, things I found lying around and quite possibly a reverse tardis (big on the outside, small on the in).

I refused to quit of course and doomed myself to a viva which, quite honestly I doubt I had any chance of passing and lacked any funding for something like major corrections. I ended up staying around the university (post-fail) to do some teaching and lecturing (I'd done lots of this throughout my time at the uni, don't worry I wasn't rubbish).

I eventually left the University and area all together and after a brief stint in school teaching (Never again!) I've settled into a office based but highly technical role in one of the big life science companies. I really enjoy this role but in around 3 years time (my partner finishes her accountancy accreditation) I will be free to explore my options should I choose to try something new.

Would I be crazy to think I could ever rise from my old 'PhD disaster' and apply for a PhD, if I see a project that I feel passionate about? I still feel I have so much to give to Science or should I just give my dream of being a researcher up?

Thanks guys.

I would always advise someone to go for their dream because if you don't at least try you will probably regret it.

For me a PhD was something I had always wanted to do but thought would never happen ie if someone asked me what would I do if I won the lottery, I'd answer 'a PhD'... so if it's that way for you too then I would say go for it, even if it is the second time round.

It's going to be harder for you to get funding, because of the failed first attempt, but it's not impossible, especially if you pursue a slightly difference research area. You should just explain everything in the cover letter, showcasing lessons from your last attempt and stating why it will be different this time around, and new knowledge and skills acquired since, in a way that makes the supervisor want to give you another chance.

I say go for it!

From my experience... I quit a PhD halfway through due to a poor fit between me and the prroject, and a very unhealthy working environment. After an RA post and an MSc, I took up a new PhD place and am now nearing the end of that project. The transition was helped by (i) knowing what to do differently next time around (ii) a very supportive referee/mentor from my RA post (iii) changing disciplines, which meant that my 'history' was partially irrelevant.

In your case, you may have a tougher time returning to it, as you would need to convince prospective supervisors that the same problems would not arise again. Contacts help. Could you pursue a PhD in your current company? Or at least in collaboration with them and a university? Can you publish papers in your current role? You also need to find a way to make your CV make some kind of sense, even if it wasn't really planned that way i.e. there needs to be a 'narrative' that leads you up to the point of doing a new PhD.

Finally, I'm not totally in agreement of the 'follow your dream or you'll regret it' philosophy as there is plenty of regret to be had in pursuing what turns out to be the wrong dream. Before you put yourself through this again, have a think about (i) whether this is the best way for you to fulfil your ambition to give to science (or whether there are other paths) and (ii) whether the successful completion of a PhD would indeed enable you to follow your dream - there are plenty of PhD graduates who don't make it because the post doc options suck. So make sure you are aware of the likelihood of future employment from the outset.

Good luck with your decisions.

Thank you HazyJane for the response, it was most helpful. I also do not completely agree with whimsical 'Follow your dream' thinking as I'm very pragmatic. It sounds like my PhD experience was similar to yours other than the fact that I refused to quit, which was clearly a mistake.

My currently role is very much as a technical associate within a company so although I do not publish papers for example I am very involved with technical developments within Life Science and speak to University labs on a daily basis providing technical advice. However, as I mentioned I am not even considering applying for a PhD for at least another two years in which time my role may have changed. By then it will have been a good six/seven years since the end of my 'failed PhD'.

I do feel that I could offer a lot as a perspective PhD student as I have lots of University teaching and supervisory experience as well as knowledge and expertise in lots of different laboratory techniques and procedures. Essentially, I wasn't a awful student, I just ended up in a really bad place at certain points in the PhD process which killed it for me.

I'm confident that when the time comes I could put together a strong application if I do find a project and a environment that would suit me. My issues is that, regardless of my application or research proposal I will just be binned because my CV has 'on paper' a PhD failure which I would be unable to escape from.

I would love to know of a mature student who was accepted onto a PhD project after failing one when they were younger.

You're both right: following a dream should only be considered if you're sure it's the correct dream and it's achievable.

I wouldn't advocate that people pursue their dreams if the dreams are unrealistic.

However, I'm yet to meet someone that says they followed their correct, achievable dream and regreted it.

hi wishful thinker
Thanks for sharing. One thing though, you need to recover from any "trauma" that you may have had from your previous phd experience. It's like a little scar but you can get past it.

Don't say that you carry the dreaded stigma on paper -- say that you've gone past it and there is NO failed phd stigma anymore. You CAN rise from your failed phd. From your previous experience, you will do even better, cope even better in a new phd project.

Ideally it would be nice (in my opinion) if you started a phd AND still have a career to fall back on. but I'm talking career because at the moment it is so hard for me to secure a job

but when I think back about me doing my phd -- which (unfortunately) does not guarantee a job -- yes I would have still done the phd anyway.

Life has been kind to me as I'm not in a struggle to find money (although I would love to have paid work using my PhD). I wanted to do the phd so I did it and it has given me a lot of good and cherishable experiences.

If it is your dream to do a PhD, go for it.

love satchi

Thank you for your kind words Satchi. It did take me quite some time to get over my PhD failure, as I mentioned in my original post things went horribly wrong in my PhD both in my work and personal life. Having a quite significant bereavement in the last year of my project took it's tole on me as well as struggling to keep a roof over my head.

Fortunately, this was a number of years ago and as I mentioned, I really enjoy my current role in the Life science Industry and have no plans to apply for a PhD for a few years yet. I just know that in a few years of relative stability I'll be ready and that love of research never really goes away does it?

I also feel your pain when it comes to securing employment, I was left with absolutely nothing when I left my University without a PhD to show for it but I managed to get a job in Life Science after a few months despite everything by taking a few chances.

After all, fortune favors the bold.

Say you did do a PhD - what would be your ideal role the other side of it? Lab based post doc-ing doesn't always work out for people and they sometimes end up gravitating towards the kind of role you are already in. It would definitely be worth pin-pointing some specific post-PhD avenues and doing some research to see how feasible they are and whether a PhD would help or hinder you.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, but we both know that there are additional cost/challenges to returning to the process again later in life. In my case I made a calculated risk, in part reassured that (i) the discipline in which I retrained gives me some highly transferable/desirable skills and (ii) my sub-discipline is an expanding field with an increasing number of opportunities inside and outside of academia. Without those reassurances I don't know if I'd have wanted to put myself through it again, but YMMV.