I think, at times, there is a lot of negativity about doing a PhD. Threads have been posted in the past to counter this, such as things you really enjoy about doing your PhD. I like my PhD when I think about it, though it is, at times, very tough and pushes me to the edge of my limited capabilities. I was sat on the trai today, coming home from some lectures I had to do, and I was sat across from a business man with a brief case. I thought about his career and what he'd be doing and thought "nah, my job's more exciting than managing accounts and sending e-mails all day long". Probably a crass oversimplification. So, I'd like to start a thread where we can identify all the good things that can arise from doing a PhD, what it can lead to in terms of career and life. Why should we do a PhD, other than the obvious answer of getting an academic career.

Here is what I think:-

1) I'll never have to do a boring (though perhaps worthwhile and well paid) 9 till 5 job, that involves making other people very rich.

2) I'll have lots of (albeit niche) skills that may be of good value.

3) I get to work with people that are really interested in what they do, smart, challenging and that keep me on my toes.

4) I get to teach (yippee) a group of really interesting people that I learn as much as they (hopefully) do me.

5) The money won't be too bad in the end (will it?).

6) I'm learning new things all the time, my skills are getting better and better.

7) I'm autonomous, largely.

8) I work with lots of different technology and get better and better at delivering learning experiences to students through different media.

I know some of it may sound very basic and obvious, but to me, this is what I look forward to in the future, post-PhD. There may even be some other surprises too. So, though it has it's downsides, like any career, it more than makes up for it in other ways. I'll get to use my brain and get to continually develop.:-)

Again, I don't want to come across as unduly negative, but with regard to point 1, I think you could be in for a rude awakening one day - as what you describe there is not very far from the job that I currently do, tbh. I'm considering going off to train as a secondary school teacher in September, as my PhD (and postdocs) have not prevented me from having to sell my labour to the private sector in order to survive.

No, I think you're being realistic, WJ-Gibson. However, to think that what I do would never get me what I want would be very counter-productive at this moment in time. What I can say is that, statistically speaking, I'm much more likely to end up doing what I want to do, if I do what I need to do. Unfortunately, like yourself, I can't predict the future or what is around the corner. What I can do, is remind myself of why it is worthwhile, what good could come of it and therefore, motivate myself, increase my chances of passing and have a successful career in academia.:-)

Oh, have a star, by the way(up)

I do agree, and like you its unlikely the private sector would want me lol - although there are a few websites in my field (big ones) that need 'experts' sometimes - but then I'd still be doing what I love.

Statistically, the chances of me getting a position that will stretch my mind and give me enough cash in my pocket to survive is significantly higher now than it ever was.

Ok, we can't live in gaga land, but I do feel that to make it through this we need to focus far far more on the positive and not allow negativity to creep in. What is the point in constantly thinking there's no point, there is no light at the end of the tunnel, we'd be better off cutting our losses now.

Heck, we're so darned fortunate to be in this position, we are living what for many is the dream - yes that dream can be a nightmare sometimes, but we are so lucky to have the opportunity to do this, millions don't, we have a chance - that is the key thing!

Nice thread Walminskipeasucker :-) Personally, having had a bit of a crappy morning, I've just returned to the office after a long lunch, where i took some time to watch tv and have a shower which has totally lifted my mood, and I can get back to work without being stuck in misery land....it's being able to do things like this that make the PhD all worthwhile sometimes! Obviously i can't spend every day mincing around and doing whatever I like, but I really appreciate the relative autonomy of academia. Being able to chose who to work with, to some extent anyway, is great, and being able to chose what I want to work on, and how I want the project to develop...these are a few of my favourite things!
Lastly...the travel! My supervisor once said to me that one of the bet things about academia was the travel and he wasn't wrong! With a combination of hard work, and sheer luck, I've had the opportunity to travel to Cork, Bristol and New Zealand to conferences and labs, something I sincerely appreciate!!

I also think Walminski has a slightly rosy view of things....

1) I'm doing a relatively boring 9-5 job a couple of days a week, albeit in HE, because it's funded me through my PhD. I am hoping it might improve slightly in the new year now I've more or less completed, but rewriting my job description is in the hands of senior management and their cost-cutting spree at the moment, along with many other jobs. It's better than many other part-time jobs though, I am sure, but I still fantasise about chucking it in.

3) I get to work with really interesting people too, but morale in the workplace is really low right now across the board, partly a result of the external ongoing changes in HE. I don't know what individual people's breaking points are, but workloads and conditions are worse than I've seen for 10 years and I know it's not just my institution.

4) I get to teach really interesting people too, which I really enjoy, but also ones who are incredibly demanding and problematic, and take up a LOT more of my time than I get paid for.

7) Personal autonomy is greater than working in a call centre, or on a checkout in a supermarket, I'd imagine, but you are at the behest of what your institution wants from you in HE, along with any other large organisation where you are not a senior member of staff. This affects your autonomy and the time you might want to spend on your own research unfortunately.

I don't want to moan too much as I wouldn't have changed anything, but when you finish your PhD you have different things to deal with and it can be a bit challenging at times. I suppose that's life all over though! Maybe things will be better when you finish, but right now, for me, it's not all lovely, happy, shiny stuff. Oh god I'm quoting REM songs now and I don't even like them...:-(

Nope, no sepia-tinted glasses here. I've done lots of different jobs before I ever ended up doing what I am now - warehouse, picking and packing, call centre, supermarket, off licence. I am enjoyed them all (apart from the crappy call centre and thieves in the off licence). There's nothing naive about what I'm saying. If it wasn't worth it, it wouldn't be so hard and competitive. And look where I've gotten so far? Maybe I won't get anything after I've finished my PhD, but sod it, that's not something to worry about too much in the midst of study - it's very self-defeating. The purpose of this thread is to identify the positives, of which there are more than negatives - everyone on this forum is testament to that. Now, I know what I say may be saccharine enough to send a diabetic into a coma, but, there is an awful lot of value in doing a PhD for future career potential. Famous last words? I hope not. If so, career as a charlatan motivational speaker methinks. :-)

I agree totally about the positives. I may only just have started my PhD, so am clearly still in the honeymoon period (!!!) but having worked in a lot of different places since finishing my first degree 14 years ago (yikes!) I know exactly how demoralising and disspiriting many jobs can be. Even if this is just a brief respite of three years of being in control of my own time and being able to pursue topics that interest me, that's a sight more than most people get to have, and there's a reasonable likelihood that the work I'll be doing once I've (hopefully) got the PhD will be far more interesting and challenging than the work I was doing before. Nothing is ever perfect, but this path seems more likely than many to lead somewhere interesting and rewarding, and that's good enough for me!

Hello walmin,

good for you for being happy and positive, that is really encouraging.

my attitude and mood changed after joining this forum, keep on the good work.
by the way may i ask what does your nickname mean, it is too long and hard to remember:$

It may be due to the strange fact that I am enjoying the dole queue far more than the last 6 months of Post doc slavery but this post made me laugh more than anything in a long time.


1) If Walminski wants to be a post doc or junior lecturer I assure you he is going to do a lot of boring stuff (grant apps, paperwork) in order to make some people (notably Vice Chancellors) very rich.

2) Those niche skills are SO niche you may as well classify them alongside speaking Klingon.

3) Yep, smart intelligent people alright... but you forgot ruthless, backbiting and very, very scared thanks to the impending HE reorganisation.

4) You also get to teach the dregs that are churned through our universities thanks to the wonders of 50% participation goals.

5) The money is similar to an area manager of McDonalds. Or the graduate starting salary of a medic. Think about that.

6) This is true. Its also true if you spend a couple of hours down the public library every day after work.

7) If you mean by autonomous "left alone to get onto it, but still be subject to the whims of your PI, university, demanding students", then whoo autonomy.

8) This is true.

Bitter. Moi?

Christ, mulleted one (sorry, that's one of the only bad hair cuts I can think of other than mine), you really need a laugh then :-) Let's not get embittered and defeatist about things. If you want that, I recommend you start posting on the Daily Mail website and join the Country Is Going To Crap Club. Unless we're a population of masochists, why the hell bother with it? Why doesn't everyone that wants this career that is so evil, demoralising, demotivating, soul-destroying, just stop what they're doing, join you in the dole queue and have a defeatist, self-flagellating orgy? I suppose you being so omniscient about matters (though they're based on your relative experiences and personality), I may as well just stop entertaining ideas of success, put my pen down, shrug my shoulders and utter "oh well, I'll drop out tomorrow". If it's as utterly shit (sorry) as you say, there's not much point is there? Time to start learning Klingon instead methinks because you've put a dirty great crap stain on the CV I was going to develop and use for my future career. I'm glad my internal organs don't share your view of future prospects because they may as well pack in now. And thanks for the 'insider' information telling me exactly what it's going to like, because in my ignorance and naivety of trying to emphasise what I think could be positive about a post-phd career to spur myself on, I really didn't know what's expected. For the first time I believe I can use the words 'objective', 'perspective' and 'misery' in the same sentence. (up)

Oh, have a star. Now there's a reason to be cheery!

Ah, BH, thank you, that's made me laugh! Next challenge is to take up Klingon!

Am in a bad place at the moment - sick, depressed, isolated, hate my thesis and my life. So thank you for cheering me up! I'm afraid a nice positive thread isn't going to do it at the moment Walminski, but good on you for for this thread anyway.

The best thing about life after the PhD will just be getting the thing done and getting my life back!!!! My area is too niche for me to get an academic job in, and noone cares about it anyway, and at the moment I can't stand the thought of staying in academia to further shred any self-confidence I may have left after getting through this horrendous process.

...I'd better stop now before I get even more negative...but heres to all of you who are feeling positive!!

Thanks for the star.

Sure I may be on the dole, but I am aware I am actually happy for the first time in 6 months. I am the most optmisitic I have been in a long, long time.I kid you not, its like leaving prison.

Now here are the REAL reasons why you should be proud of what you are doing.

1). Your PhD will be an achievement very few people on earth will achieve. Like climbing mount Everest. Do you think Edmund Hilary did that so that he could get a good salary out of it?

2) While your PhD is not a marker of intelligence, it IS a marker of phenomenal stamina. The sort of dedication that makes marathon running easy (most people who enter finish) or joining the SAS look like something you may do on a weekend (fairly achievable for a halfway decent professional soldier). To start, write up and complete a PhD is one of the high points of human tenacity. Oxbridge, 1st class honours, award winners all fall by the wayside. Regardless, you finish, you have something about you.

3) A former nobel laurate once told me at a conference: "You will never learn more about yourself at any other time, or what you are truly capable of doing when you do your PhD." As cynical as I am, I actually believe him.

4) I learned what your PhD is what you make of it. While the academic rat race is all well and good if you are well connected, lucky and prepared to give up almost everything else, its also a way to get into commercial research, publishing, journalism, and 101 other routes. Obviously you have to think laterally, and have some self possession. No one is going to come begging to you.

5) For outsiders a PhD, is a scary misunderstood thing and people tend to listen to any kind of nonsense you care to fire out your rear. Combined with a decent general education and shot of self confidence you can convince people that your half thought out speculations actually are incredibly meaningful. In academia people used to look down on me because I wasnt a Fullbright Scholar- in the real world, people buy me drinks.