I am a Canadian PhD student, and reading some of the posts on this site bother me due to the immature nature of the comments. Dont people have better things to do... like work on your research! Also, I feel like PhD are becoming undervalued due to the high volume of students skipping masters. Additionally, I question the quality of PhD's in other countries. For example, i think it's nuts that in Europe a PhD can be obtained in 3 years ( I could be wrong about that fact) In Canada, you are lucky if you get a masters in that time. Most PhD students here take 5-7 years to complete a PhD, and it's not because we take our time either, it's because of the high expectations and demands. On a regular basis I worked 14 hours/day in the lab.

Does anybody else feel the same fustration!?

There is so much I want to say, but most of it would get me banned from the forum.

I'm not quite sure what to say about this really. Maybe because I am one of those people that has gone straight from a BSc to a PhD. What makes you think that the quality of PhDs is going down because of people who don't have a masters degree? Going straight from BSc to PhD is more common in the sciences.

I agree that PhDs are shorter over here. Yes, we can get a PhD in 3 years although it's usually closer to 4 by the time the thesis has been submitted. Do you have to take classes in Canada? I'm just wondering because I've heard other people talk about taking classes and that's not usually a requirement here. I'm not sure how it works in other parts of Europe.

14 hours/day in the lab is not very healthy.

If you don't like the comments on here then the simple answer is not to read them. What is the problem if people come on here to chat to fellow students for a bit of light relief, you can't do research 24 hours a day.

I did not do a masters, some supervisors don't see the need for a masters if you did well with your undergraduate degree.. You either have the ability to do research or you don't.

The fact that PhDs are completed in a shorter time here is no way indicative of poor quality. If that was the case then why is a UK education still highly sought after worldwide? Its a bit out of order and narrow minded to slate a sucessful and popular education system simply because its different to your own.

I thing sugar_student is absolutely right and today's PhD students are a load of time wasters and slackers who dont know the meaning of hard work.

when i were a lad (err, before the sex change) we had to work 10 hours a day in t'mill (frequently lopping off a finger or two), trudge ten miles home across a ploughed field, peel three ton of spuds to feed the bairns and THEN do fourteen hours a day in the lab.

and if you were caught on an internet forum you were whipped. (although some people quite liked that .....)

Whipped? WE used to dream about being whipped.. We used to have to get up 2 hours before we went to bed, spend 36 hours a day in the lab 8 days a week.. When we got to the lab our supervisor used to break conical flasks over our heads and make us drink acid.. Try telling that to the young ones today, they wont believe you.. Eeee how times change.

Ok, I have some stuff to add. Some people might not like it, some might, I don't know, but seeing as a forum is a place where you can speak how you feel, here goes.

Firstly, the masters thing. I think that, in social sciences and arts, a masters is needed as first degrees are both too broad and have been dumbed down, so that progression straight to PhD is difficult. I don't doubt that sciences have been dumbed down too, but I very much doubt that this is to the same extent as arts.

Second, about PhD's in other countries. First, while a Phd in Europe is FUNDED for three years, it's usually closer to four years to complete. Also, I read recently that the average 20 year old student in the US and Canada is two years behind their European counterparts. so the extra time on the PhD will make up for that.

Finally, rather than posting derogatory and self-aggrandising comments, why don't you find something better to do with your time, such as...work on your research!

If your PhD project followed straight on from your masters project I could see the sense in that statement but I have no intention to do anything vaguely related to mine. (Well it's still biological research I suppose)

I only did my MSc by research as I was paid to do it and couldn't find a suitable PhD project at the time. I am doing another one at the minute which work is paying me through as I find industry brain numbingly dull.

I have a good undergrad degree from a well respected uni and I might get slapped here but I thought it was more the norm in this country that if you were doing a masters instead of a PhD it was because you needed to boost a shoddy undergrad result.

*Laughing too hard to answer*

maybe the mods need a sign - "do not feed the trolls"!

Added info, class work is not required for phds in canada.
Also, i'm sorry to have offended anybody. Basicly I just wrote the original comment to get some feedback on whats required of PhD students in other countries.

Ok, I think the important thing to note here is that in the UK students are generally working at a higher level than their counterparts in other countries i.e., students doing their BScs will take 3 years and it will be very specialised. I have an American friend who did her first 'general' degree in which she took many very different courses - it wasn't until se did her masters that she actually specalised. Also, I think at aged 17 when we do A-Levels, we are doing work at a higher level that those in the Canadian system. I have another friend who moved out there and they were studying things she'd learned at GCSE (aged 15-16) level!

Thanks Bobby, that could make some sense. I don't know much about BSc's elsewhere. Our undergrads are definetly very course intensive and we do cover lots of topics. They are suppose to be finished in 4 years, but most take 5 years due to financial need, ie working on the side. Or students complete co-op programs where they get work experience.

Sugar Student,

Thank you for your sweet sweet message. I too am a PhD student but I think my life would be a lot easier if the UK had more Phd students like you (esp if youre a lady).

Lady P, congratulations on getting a Phd with only a Bsc but at my institute, one of the top in the world (if I do say so myself), they do not hire people who have only just graduated from their Bsc course.