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I'm trying to finish up my thesis, and despite enjoying the fieldwork I am finding the whole experience grueling. I know I'm not the only one who feels this! But my query for this thread was whether it's fair to extrapolate this feeling to my possible future life in academia?

Going into academia was not the reason I did my PhD, but still lingers in the back of my brain I suppose as a default option. But when I think of going into academia, all I can imagine is my current situation and immediately recoil, thinking "I don't want to be doing this for my career".

Then I try to reason with myself, saying "Well, if you get a lectureship, you won't be all alone in your work, you'll have colleagues, you won't be tackling such a massive project, you'll be lecturing, researching, writing and supervising eventually..."

Then the thought of lecturing fills me with horror (one of the effects of focusing on my area in my PhD being to make me forget about the rest of my discipline, making me feel like I know nothing), and then I look at my institution's academic staff and think, I'd probably be better off working alone!

I suppose it's one of those 'won't know until you've tried it' situations. I just wondered what other people thought about this, whether, for example, they really wanted to go into academia but the PhD has made them reconsider, or vice versa.

I know there have been lots of threads on life after PhD and hope I haven't overlapped too much, but would be keen for opinions on this specific point.
Thanks!(up)

(sorry this is rather irrelevant but does anyone know why the paragraph breaks I inserted haven't come out in the thread subject text?)

Being a lecturer isn't as lonely as being a PhD student, and you'll gain a lot more respect. The work is quite varied i.e., research, lecturing, dealing with tutees, and admin work, so you'll come in contact with other human beings a lot more. But I think it is up to the individual how much they want to be alone in a department. The stress of producing research is still at the forefront, but a new lecture is only expected to knock out 2 articles/publications a year...so that's not too bad.

For a very good account (and enough to put most people off) of the jobs/stresses a lecturer faces, see:
http://www.kevinboone.com/university.html

I agree, it is a gruelling experience, but I like to tell myself that this is the worst part of the whole PhD process, actually trying to finish the whole thing. I might be horribly deluded of course, but I really hope that if I can get this behind me then I'll be ok for any other part of academia I end up in. At least that's what a couple of our research fellows have told me.... that it's a bit hideous at the time, but worth it for the range of skills it gives you. I'm doing it because I do want to work in academia, but this whole process has shown me that I don't like working in complete isolation, so for me, any future research I do would be best conducted as part of a group, even if it's just a cluster of staff in the same department doing related research on individual topics rather than one big project. As Missspacey said, there are so many different parts to lecturing that it does give variety, which is notably absent in the continuous drudgery of the PhD writing up stage!!

I wouldn't worry too much about thinking you know nothing any more about the rest of your discipline, as you mentioned, it's in the nature of specialising on a tiny area for so long. If you were still interested in it, I'm sure you'd be able to remind yourself of bits you'd forgotten fairly quickly by looking at key texts again. You'd always know more than your students anyway! I forget stuff I've been teaching for years and find I have to revise it before the new academic session starts each year, especially if I've been buried in my PhD for months on end.

If you've enjoyed doing the fieldwork, there's always other possibilities for research, maybe working with other institutions rather than in a university, like charities, government departments or business/industry based organisations. What you do afterwards doesn't have to be 100% academia, as theoretically we develop a lot of other transferable skills as well as get a doctorate.

btw the thing about the paragraph breaks - send Pete a PM with info about your browser and computer, like the browser and version you're using, pc or mac, operating system, and he might look into it. I had that problem a while ago and he had to tweak some code to fix it.

I think on the whole that it's only worth going into academia if you are so fascinated by your research that you can't imagine getting job satisfaction unless you can pursue it. You have to love researching and writing otherwise the stresses that go with the job aren't worth it. Since becoming a postdoc I've been more aware of what lecturers actually have to do on a day to day basis and a lot of it is firefighting to deal with the problem of too many students who need more and more support academically and too few staff (and appallingly incompetent management). I've got a lot of respect for them but I'm not sure I really want to go through years of uncertain employment to become a lecturer (in my social science subject they reckon only 10% of PhDs get a lectuership), when it looks like a very stressful job. The only plus other than the opportunity to do research, is that it's more flexible than most jobs but if you having to work 60 hour weeks to keep vaguely on top of things then I'm not convinced flexibility is that great! So I think in answer to your question, I'm looking elsewhere. tbh it's seeing two of the younger lecturers appointed maybe 2 years ago as rising stars in the profession; they both now look ten years older, ill and exhausted and neither has been able to get much if any research done. That account MissSpacey posted just confirms what I'm seeing here (although at least the pay is better now).

Bewildered, what you say sounds very familiar and I do agree. It mirrors what's going on in my area unfortunately, though it's a different discipline. I'd add to your reasons for wanting to go into academia though - it's not just the research topic I find interesting, but I really like teaching and working with students. When problems with mismanagement etc get too much, I find it's actually working with students that reminds me why I'm there. Otherwise there doesn't seem any point in working in a college as you might as well be anywhere.

Gosh Bewildered - what is your social science subject where only 10% get lectureships? that sounds a bit daunting!

Having gone from being a full-time phD student to a full-time lecturer in the past 2 months, Id say that there are more overall similarities than differences between the two (i was also teaching during my phD, so that may be why). the differences are, as mentioned, more variety in the job as lecturer, and definitely treated with more respect although, as both a 'newbie' and as a female, not as much respect as some others in the dept! on the downside, theres less flexibility, and with a teaching timetable, there's no question of not being at certain places at certain times (and being fully prepared in advance), and that can actually take some getting used to. i havent quite decided yet whether i prefer it or not (although prefer not being skint!)

I've been asking myself similar questions lately. I'm certain that I want to stay in academia, but I hope some things will be different compared to being a student. Mainly, I feel aware of being at the bottom of the pecking order, and I hope that if I get my PhD then I'll have earned the right to say "no" to collaborators, or take a break without people saying something about it.


I'm hoping the main difference will be the ability to put more of myself into my work; and have more control over my day to day activities.

Zelda - it's political science. It's a subject that produces way more PhDs than there are jobs in the UK and then because Britain is currently seen as a place where interesting research is done, there are a lot of Americans, Canadians and other Europeans applying too for every job (often people who already have academic jobs). It's difficult to compete with people who've taken 7 or 8 years to do a PhD and so had the time to publish when you've been under the ESRC 'you must finish in 4 years and preferably 3 or we will punish your department' regime...I've been lucky - I got a postdoc and am trying to publish like mad but hardly anyone that I used to see as graduate students on the conference circuit has got anything other than hourly paid teaching, and to be honest that means living on the breadline, which as most people are already in debt isn't viable for more than a year. Why I said loving research is the key to me as to why you should or shouldn't go into academia, is that although I quite enjoyed my PhD, I'm not honestly getting much job satisfaction from my research-only postdoc. I'm not convinced I like writing that much. I do enjoy teaching and working with students so I'm looking into other careers where I can do that but am not facing forty years of churning out rather pointless articles each year to meet whatever research targets are set.

Thanks for all the interesting replies. They have certainly thrown light on the situation, but I'm still not sure about whether I should spend a lot more time/effort publishing etc. to try to get into academia. I'm considering research for other more practical purposes as you suggested Rubyw.
Missspacey, thanks for the link! It was rather disheartening, but perhaps realistic. What did other people think?
Anyway, the general conclusion seems to be that working in academia is much preferable to doing a PhD, especially in terms of isolation, although it of course has its own problems. That's interesting that you think there are more similarities than differences, Zelda, although I haven't done any teaching on my PhD...
One thing that concerns me is the inward-looking nature of academia: my own forays into using my research in the 'real world' during the PhD were greeted less than enthusiastically with many, and I feel that this sort of activity produces a lot of resentment amongst more institutionally-bound academics.
As to whether you need passion for your research (Bewildered) or a desire to teach (Rubyw) I feel like this raises the questions of whether it is sensible that the same person is employed to do all three roles: lecture, supervise and research.
As usual, this has raised more questions than answers! Thanks for all the comments again.

Lecturing is much more fun and easier than completing a PhD.  For one thing you don't have to defend your work in front of experts. I occasionally get really smart students who push me intellectually but it's really fun when you do.  Most of the time they are really grateful that you're prepared to help them - we have many 'old style' academics who leave the students high and dry without good reason. Creating lectures is interesting because you get to share your interests with others although you end up looking like a sad geek!  Standing up in front of a class is scary but you soon get used to it. I get nervous when term starts in September but I soon get back into routine.  The department where I work is mixed in that we are expected to do some research but teaching is our primary business. You might get a different response from someone in a research-led department. 

On the negative side there's the internal politics and the complete doughnuts, of which there is always at least one in every department. Sometimes you may get a student who believes they know it all but provided you answer their questions and treat them well they can never get the better of you.  For some students, your best is never enough and the only thing you can do is shrug it off but these cases are rare at least in my experience.

I have changed my rather rose tinted view of academia since I have worked as a lecturer but it is still a very enjoyable job.
:-)

Thanks Sarah, it's really good to hear that you are having such a good experience. What you describe is just what I hope for (one day!):-)