Lads and ladies,
Add one more to the list of disgruntled soldiers ... after a meeting with the supervisor where he as good as ripped me a new one and as good as tried to force me out (right on the two year mark). I won't go into details but I will not be forced out by someone who is not paying attention to my work (he can meet with other PhDers at least once a week but has only met with me three times over the last 7 months!). One of the outcomes of the meeting was that I was not treating the Phd professionally enough, which I do concede.
Can anyone please advise me from your own experiences as to how to stop viewing the PhD as a personal quest and to treat it as a 9-5 job? I am artrocious at it! I know I should be writing more but
a. Find it difficult
b. The supervisor doesn't even read it - I mean there was times y'day I physically wanted to punch him and say "did you not read the document or even the accompanying email?"
Don't get me wrong - there are positives. While it is late in the day, I have a solid idea (but not down on paper) and there is plenty of help from other people (but none from Capt. Happy). I guess I am asking two questions:
1. How the fudge can you get into the habit of report writing in an academic manner?
2. Is it just the aggressive focussed students who get ahead? I would like to think I am considerate but lack that streak of meanness - how do you get it?
I was expecting a disturbed night of sleep but thanks to Tai Chi was ok. I have been thro' the thresher once before (as some of ye know) so not taking it too personally. I am prepared to put the work in but am also thinking of getting a contingency plan together as I have an inkling that things might get worse before they get better.

Was considering blocking a few sites to start the draconian measures (including this one - FOR SHAME !!!:$ ), but on second thoughts, realised the value of this site. I am sorry for being a smartar*e at times in my postings, but will have to say that this site has helped in the past and is a valuable asset so kudos to the admin and contributors - keep up the good work.

I do apologise for this rant, but need to get this sorted. I would like to remain a contributing part to this Band of Brothers & Sisters, but don't want to become a soul-less person in the process.

Keep the boats afloat,
Bonzo

You sound like a bit of a prat mate, never mind a smart ar*e!

And you sound a ray of positive sunshine. Have a genuinely good day Sm888.

Don't worry I won't let this descend to a battle of wits as I don't fight the unarmed.

What a charmer you are, Smr888.

Bonzo...know what you mean, I've been busting my gut lately and seriously hoping that future research will not be like this; 7 days a week, up to 15 hours a day. I'm getting to the point where I can't sleep and I'm close to snapping at our summer placement students and their endless daft questions.

As for getting ahead: I think that it's often a matter of luck and supportive supervisors. Some PhD students have already had all the groundwork laid out by previous students, for example, and for them it's much easier to treat it as a 9-5 and still get good results; for the rest of us, the work has to be done from scratch and that means office hours are just not enough.

Hi Bonzo, sounds like you're having a tough time, especially when certain things are beyond your control, ie you can't make your supervisor read things which is really annoying. How can anybody give meaningful feedback without taking the time to digest what has been presented? Is there perhaps anyone else you can get to read your stuff. May not be ideal, as the feedback may not be too specialist towards your field, but I usually find most departments have people who are happy to help. Perhaps a second supervisor. It wouldn't be disloyal to your supervisor but more a way of getting wider (and possibly more encouraging feedback). With regards to treating it like a job, remember people work well differently, this appears to be something your supervisor may not be able to grasp, so don't try too hard too fit it into 9-5. In my mind, it doesn't matter how many hours you put in, as long as its productive and you can make progress however small. Burning yourself out to satisfy others can be very counterproductive. You will end up demotivated even further. However I think it is possible to do 9-5 (not including all the extra thinking time) by being more organised. Break things down into little tasks, write a list. 5 mins spent planning your day at the start should not only get you in the mood for work without throwing yourself into the deep end, but should give you a clear direction of what needs to be done and what is achievable. It feels good to tick a job off, when it is completed, however small. Then these become just tasks and not a personal quest. One point I really want to comment on is the following: "2. Is it just the aggressive focussed students who get ahead? I would like to think I am considerate but lack that streak of meanness - how do you get it?" I agree that in academia it can be very aggressive and competitive but I don't think its necessary to be like this, and in direct answer to your question its a resounding NO! I seem to be getting ahead just fine, and its possible to do it without being aggressive and screwing everyone else over on your way up. It does help to be driven and enthusiastic but you don't have to be selfish (which can happen to even the nicest people when they start PhD). It is good to have a little competitive streak, just not in a nasty way. Anyway, sorry for waffling. Hope you feel better soon.

sm888 you sound to me like a f%^king ass*&^le. If you have nothing constructive to say then don't say it dipsh^t !!

I can empathise with you. Like Juno, I've been having to work long hours and am having trouble sleeping and trying to get stuff done. I'm not sure you can treat is as 9 to 5 (often I can't at least!) and sometimes have to work for much longer. I therefore think you can't treat it as a 'regular' job. I know this might sound silly, but have you thought about writing drafts of chapters? Maybe doing a literature review paper for submission to a journal (if that's appropriate)? Do you have an interim assessment coming up that you can prepare for that require academic writing?

Do you have any tips for switching off from it all, Walminpeasucker?

I'd like to relax but I'm also scared of losing momentum: I can't afford to start slipping!

Hi
I got a book yesterday, from reading stuff on here, and it looks good to me so far. Called Writing Your Dissertation in 15 Mins a Day, by Joan Bolker. It seems to focus more on the psychology of what we are trying to achieve rather than a typical "how to". I'll let you look on Amazon for what it's about rather than trying my own synopsis.:-)
Re your supervisor, playing devil's advocate a little, could it be that he can sense that you are not fully engaged and so he is holding back on it too? If the other students are more engaged with their work, maybe it is easier to focus on them. That's not excusing, he should help you through that, but they are only human too.

And you don't need a mean streak, that won't get you further in the long run.

People,
Thanks - your help and advice is appreciated and will be acted on (SM888 is right ... I am a prat for putting up with it, but if meant in a negative way, I've no bothers taking anyone on in a "you're sooo ugleee" contest - could even incorporate it into the proposed get-together :p)

As for the advice, it isn't a case of turning off but the others would agree, you need a hobby or two and take meaningful breaks away to remind you of other aspects (even a midweek gig can help). I suppose getting the work done is also a means of getting it off your mind, but those moments are rare i.e. when you feel you have something considerable done. Had a problem with that before (still do, but not as bad)

Will be more assertive in the future, without being a pr*ick! Might mean having to keep a record of everything but hey! Just as an example, one of the friends here showed me CMAP - its a tool like Visio, but faster to use. Getting a diagramatical representation of the plan down and will also compile a snag list.

Mood totally changed now - there's work to be done so just have to get it done.

Thanks again,
Bonzo

Hi Juno, I'd be a liar if I said I did. I can't switch off from my work, even when I'm supposed to take a break at weekend. If affects all aspects of my life at the mo, such as in the evening when my gf complains because I don't spend any time with her. It makes me a bit mad, because like people have said on here before, unless you're doing a PhD you can't know what it's like. I'm like you in that if I break for any lengthy period, I lose momentum. I've got an interim assessment and GTA lessons coming up too. Grim.
I was saying to some friends the other day, all the researcher who have made important contributions to their field must have had very understanding people in their lives, because I don't know how I could be good at what I do in the future without sacrificing everything. A professional researching job had better not involve what a PhD does in terms of time and energy.

Hey...

I do Tai Chi too... mostly Chen style.. been doing it for years but prefer to play with swords than calm down using it :-)

Anyhoo... I was probably one of the least focussed PhD students my Supervisor ever had. I knew I wanted to finish it and knew I would never quit... but I didn't kiss arse, took very little seriously and didn't work beyond 5pm any day and certainly not at weekends.

However.. when I thought I would submit in October '06, I was told my thesis was all over the place and I would have to re-write sections before I could submit it... and I finally submitted it in Feb '08 - over a year later. Why? as I apparantly 'wrote like a chav' (my 2nd Supervisors words, not mine) .. and I know what he means.

It is really, really hard to write 'academically', especially if you actually have a life and aren't constantly anal about things - what I found useful was reading 'The Elements of Style' (a very mini book with some very good tips) and just reading other peoples thesis' and papers in a similar area to mine.

Be prepare to re-write again... and again... and again.. but never give up.

I went over my 3 years as I think I took the PhD a little *too* lightly... and I still think re-writing my thesis whilst working full time was the hardest thing I ever did, hence why I would suggest to you that every day you have a relatively good idea of what you want to achieve - I didn't and spent way too many nights in the pub.

PC_Geek - were we seperated @ birth? That is exactly how things are and as I see them. I don't want to be over-analytical with my writing and being told that my English is sub-standard (which, considering I did Hons. English, still hurts ... not British so different Education system).

Thanks for the tip about the book - will follow it up.

Probably just scared of the whole writing & re-writing process but if it has to be done, it has to be done.

Hope ya doing what ya set out to do at this stage

I can recommend The Elements of Style too. It really is very helpful and very short which makes it a winner in my opinion.

I think we should set up 'Bad Writers Anonymous' - my supervisor told me today that my writing is facile and my punctuation is awful. It's strange that when I was his research assistant and earning a pittance (I no longer work for him thankfully) my writing was good enough to write consultancy projects (for which he earned megabucks) and five chapters of an annual publication he used to edit. He is a prof without a PhD by the way.

Chin up Bonzo, you're in good company ;-)

p.s. I hope my punctuation was okay?!

"The elements of style" does seem to be regarded as one the most useful references for good writing practice across academic disciplines. It is a guide on good writing practice in general not specifically for thesis writing. My undergraduate supervisor recommended it during my final year and I will have to say that it is a very useful little book ( wish I had actually payed attention to it when I was writing up my first year report ). " Write your Dissertation in 15 minutes a day " seems to be mentioned quite a lot on this forum so it could be worth a look as well.

I find that find most books on academic are rather rubbish!! I would agree with PC_Geek that the best way to learn good thesis writing is first of all to read PhD Dissertations in your field ( after all they have passed and so are up to the requisite standard and then write, write and write!!!