There are fewer PhDs outside of DTPs now, it's true. I'm in biology as well, so it's probably a bit different to SS. The main websites are findaphd.com and jobs.ac.uk. Also look at the info on department web pages. Definitely apply for more than one things as DTPs are really competitive as well.

Yes but the problem is that the original poster didn't get the 2:1 that fallenonion is talking about. She got a 2:2. That is a different league altogether for reasons already stated on here.

I have to say though that the original poster needs to take all of our advice with a pinch of salt. She asked for advice and we have all tried to be honest about how we feel. The truth is though that not one of us really knows for sure how her path will turn out. Ultimately she will need to make her own mind up about whether she feels capable and determined enough to succeed at this.

Anyone prepared to have a go at bettering themselves deserves respect for trying, regardless of what anyone, including myself, thinks of her grades.

Did a lot of digging on the sites you suggested, but nothing much doing. Wrote to a few potential supervisors in different unis, and although the response has generally been helpful and most seem interested (I was particularly impressed with the UEA response, as although the lecturer said that my topic was outside of her area of expertise, she nevertheless passed on some very helpful suggestions), they all mentioned that funding may be a problem. From what I can gather from the responses, my best bet of funding might be at my present uni. My supervisor seems confident that I have a very good chance of funding, and is helping me to polish my proposal to that effect, but its always nice to have fall back position if possible.

Was thinking of applying to Oxford also, as I (just about) meet their entry requirements (high 2:1 + Distinction. strangely, Cambridge asks for a First + Distinction), and they say they fully fund about 75% of their students, and acceptance rate for my topic is about 1 in 4. Not sure if that is thinking above my station, though. Plus they want 75 quid for an application.

Apply for oxford. Those odds look good to me.

Looking at the numbers, its tempting. But the competition should be too strong, as I just about meet their minimum entry requirements, and its likely to be 75 quid down the drain. Might still give it a go though. Who knows, I might get lucky, and face a less strong list of applicants this year. It'd certainly be good for bragging rights to say that I had turned down a funded place at Oxford, as I would stay at my present uni in the unlikely circumstances that I get accepted for funding for both.

I am in my 50’s. First degree early 1980’s was a 3rd. Masters early 90’s was a pass.

First degree loosely relates to the subject matter of my PhD proposal. Masters is unrelated.

I have been made two offers. One is to be supervised by a Professor with 30 years experience who described my proposal as “an accomplished piece of work”.

Work that one out...

N

Some of the comments in this thread reference grades have brought a wry smile to my face!

I have a 3rd in my first degree attained 34 years ago - and a pass in my Masters (23 years ago) - and at 56 years of age have to date received THREE offers from Universities in the UK.

One Professor (highly qualified (Oxbridge/Harvard)) and with around 40 years of experience, in particular emailed and told me that my proposal was "an accomplished piece of work" and that he would be "delighted" to supervise me.

And, the subject matter of the proposal is an area that I have no recent academic nor work experience in.

And, finally, even at my age and with what some on here would doubtless consider to be inappropriate, and perhaps even appalling grades, I am confident that I will attain a PhD...

N

Whilst you are perfectly welcome to challenge my views nige, I have not used the phrase "appalling grades" so I would appreciate it if you did not to attempt to put words in my mouth.
As regards your offers, I have attempted to explain why people with lower grades are being offered positions within PhD programs and I am doing so from the position of having completed a PhD and having routinely discussed such matters with academics themselves over several years. You may be the exception. You will find out soon enough but you need to be at least aware of what goes on before you start. Certainly you should be very careful trusting the opinions of professors regardless of which university they are attached to. This forum is absolutely packed with threads about students being shafted by academics who had previously whispered sweet nothings into their ears in the early days of the PhD. It can be brutal if you get a few months in and find you either lack or cannot speedily gain the academic background required to be successful. You are not in a position to know how you will cope until you start so it might be worth putting your wry smile on hold until you start and in the meantime taking on as much freely given and honest advice as you can get from those who have gone through the process - both on here and elsewhere. Yes, even the opinions you don't agree with.
Also, most people who attempt a PhD would appear to graduate. That was not the point I was trying to make.

Hi pm133

Firstly, I apologise for using the word "appalling". I would like to put forward my experiences to date as they may be useful for others - particularly those with lower grades:

1. Grades: I am very conscious that my grades do not match the level that is generally acceptable to most Universities - most stating that one would be expected to have a 2:1 or higher. The approach I hav etaken in view of the aforementioned has been to approach potential supervisors before submitting formal applications.

Of the supervisors that have seen my proposal and which at least purport to have the relevant experience to supervise me, not one has been concerned about my grades - and in fact one actually stated that "a 3rd back in 1983 is probably equivalent to a 2:1 today".

2. Supervisors: I have been speaking at length with a senior lecturer at a University who has been giving me "independent" advice (he is not a potental supervisor, although his particular experience is loosely connected to my specific area of study). He himself completed a PhD many years ago having attained a 2:2 - and therefore did not see my 3rd as a bar to being accepted to start a PhD. His advice has been:

- carefully consider any supervisor - and in fact only accept any offer if there are at least two supervisors to be involved
- try and establish as best one can, that the supervisors are going to be around for the duration of one's studies (in my case, 6 years as I will be part-time).
- try and be, geographically, in a position to regularly meet face-to-face with supervisors rather than relying on communications via email, Skype etc.

Acting on the above advice, I have spent a not inconsiderable length of time researching supervisors and in fact your comment pm133 regarding "sweet nothings" struck a chord - and having researched the Professor I referred to, I will certainly not be accepting his/his University's offer as I discovered a number of negative things!!

Getting to the point I am at today has been tough - I have spent many hours re-drafting my proposal.

In terms of supervisor selection it really is a minefield. I just hope that I make the right decision - and I take on board your comments pm133 that I do not at this point in time know how I will cope until I start.

I would welcome your (and any other) comments on what to expect?

N

[quote]Quote From bewildered:
I work in a faculty with the same entry requirements as Birmingham. We are not allowed to accept a student with your grades without special permission from the dean, who very rarely agrees. This is because the statistics tell us that such students rarely manage to complete a PhD.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you know where I might find the statistics you refer to please?

N

I think it is important to bear in mind that different unis have different procedures. My advice would be never don't try something just because you don't meet the criteria. You may just get in. And if you don't... never give up... even if it does end up meaning that you need to do a masters again and get a better grade to end up being able to pursue your goal. You'll get there in the end if it is what you want.

I completed my PhD in a psychology relevant year a few years ago at a top 25 university.

I obtained my PhD scholarship/studentships with a 2.2 in my psychology undergraduate degree and two psychology master degrees (both with merits and including a masters at UCL.

I've worked as a postdoctoral researcher in various universities (including UCL) and last week was interviewed for a lecturer in psychology position. I didn't get this post, but their considering me for another role in the department. I'm also due to qualify as a practitioner psychologist early next year.

I suspect I'm very much the exception, but I understand the difficulties faced by a candidate with a 2.2. It can be very soul destroying and disheartening to be faced with the 2.1 only barrier, regardless of considering postgraduate qualifications. Even now, there's some universities and courses that would reject me outright because of my 2.2, but fortunately, there are definitely other universities with a more flexible and inclusive attitude. I just wanted to reach out to the OP that it might be possible to secure competitive positions, but be prepared to think laterally, send out speculative emails and really sell your skills and relevant experience.

My 2.2 isn't so much a barrier anymore (especially given my PhD). I certainly never mention it if at all possible (I typically cite second class honours rather than a 2.2) but these sorts of discussions highlights it for me. For me, I almost feels like a sense of shame for my undergraduate degrees but I'm also quick to challenge this with all my postgraduate accomplishments.

Best of luck OP

I have been speaking at length with a senior lecturer post doc of many years standing and he is of the opinion that grades are not that relevant and that applications should be considered taking into account many other factors.

That is seemingly what has happened in my case.

I have had rejections - but none based on the class of my degree - the majority have been simply that the institutions concerned have not had suitable supervisors.

N

Whilst I think that the lack of top grades need not necessary prevent anyone taking on a PhD, especially for the self-funded route, it would be over-egging the pudding to say that grades are irrelevant in the process. It is probably a fact that top grades do open more doors, and top grades from 'top' unis even more so.

The vast majority (if not all) of funded places do list top grades as prerequisites, and most RC funds do seem to be concentrated in RG unis. I don't see why RG unis outside of Oxbridge should be considered 'better', but it does seem to be case in terms of RC funding.

Hope you have some success in getting alternative funding, and looking forward to that beer/coffee when it gets warmer.

In reality, grades are relevant - especially when it comes to them parting with the bucks. They are part of the triage procedure. They serve as an indicator (merely an indicator, not a guarantee...) of the person's ability to perform well - and consistently - at a higher level. So they can't just be ignored/seen as irrelevant. They are part of the information that will help form the judgment about whether to accept/fund.

But that doesn't mean you're screwed if you are less than happy with your grades/don't meet the criteria. You just have to go for it!

I know someone who got into a RG uni for her BSc with no A levels (3 or 4 A/B grades including one in particular subjects were required). She managed to get on the course and ended up getting both her undergrad and masters with a Distinction. She had worked before going to uni and had good references about her abilities and performance in the workplace, which must have carried some weight. Plus she had shown she had held down a job for a good few years. Grades aren't everything. But you have to be prepared to be persistent and resilient to first get in so that you can prove that!