======= Date Modified 05 18 2008 00:18:10 =======
======= Date Modified 05 09 2008 00:09:24 =======
Hi all,
I graduated with my BSc just over three years ago now. I loved my course and was a good student... but not necessarily a great one. I got a 2:1
I suffered from depression and crippling shyness through university, and was never very good at pushing myself forward.

Now after three years of wasting my life in unhappy jobs I want so much to do a phd - always been looking but never going for one.
Have mostly recovered from my depression (dealing with it, anyway), but think it's after effects may stop my application before it stated.
I'm sure none of my lecturers remember me, even my honours supervisor. I have kept in touch with one faculty member, but the application process always asks for 2-3 references.

And Biology changes so swiftly, will three years totally out of the field stop a supervisor considering me?
I also cannot afford to do a Masters to get me up to speed- see three years dead-end jobs.

I'm intelligent and I work hard - is this enough?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

I am intrigued. The reason for a PhD cannot ever be dissatisfaction with your present life status. To me, it looks like you're not entirely happy with your jobs, you have other problems as well, which I appreciate, and as a result of all of this, you want to 'escape' into a PhD.

Let me leave aside the fact that you do not have a Masters, which is usually a prerequisite for UK PhDs or that you've been away from your subject or that you may encounter troubles in gathering references. If I were a supervisor, I would need to know:

1. Why do you want to a PhD?
2. What is your area of academic interest in the broad field? In other terms what is it that you are interested in researching?
3. Why with me?
4. What are your thoughts about funding?

These are only a few. "I want to do a PhD very much" is very different from "I want to do a PhD because (some valid academic/professional reason". Mind you, the answer to this is not just needed to convince a supervisor to take you on but above all, to make sure you're not entering something because it looks like a safe escape away from reality.

Trust me, a PhD is as real as it gets, as anyone on this forum will vouch.

I hope you think this through clearly, and then make a decision!

Cheers.

I don't think you have in anyway missed the boat if your desire is to undertake a PhD. You're only 3 years beyond graduation! People do PhDs in their 20s, 30s, & 40s with all sorts of backgrounds.

The main problems that you face, which PhDbug has already mentioned, is your 2.1 classification with no masters, and your underlying motivations for doing a PhD.

With respect to your 2.1, this is unlikely to get you into a PhD programme, and probably not in a decent university. You say you can't afford to do a masters, but how do you plan to fund the PhD? With a 2.1, it is highly unlikely you're going to get funding (although still apply, you never know!). Your depression/unhappy jobs will have little bearing on your application - it is the academic qualifications that matter the most for domestic students.

Given your depression, you should also very, very carefully consider whether the PhD is right for you. PhD life is lonely, leaves one alone with their own thoughts and the hours are very long. It can make people very susceptible to depression (search the forum to see). You also have to develop a thick skin as you'll come across a lot of egotistical people.

If you really want to do a PhD, you have to prove you are more than just a hard working, intelligent individual with a 2.1. You need to show true interest in a particular research topic, and be able to justify that research and what you can add to it. I would strongly recommend you do a masters - this would solve a lot of your problems, i.e. references, acquiring the relevant skills and taking your career in another direction even if you don't pursue a PhD.

Hi there, you certainly haven't missed the boat - you have decades yet - but you do need to find a way of doing a masters.

I was the only person in a very large dept that was on a funded phd programme without a masters - the only reason I had been allowed to do this was because I had two u/grad degrees, both 1.1s and had worked as a researcher in HE between those and my phd application. To get the funding I had to provide a document which compared all the work themes in a research masters and the +1 esrc programme with my actual working experience - for example , construction of methodologies and ethical issues, these had to be matched with documented proof of my undertaking these activities at work.

Don't let this put you off though, if you have the drive to do a phd then just look at these as the first hurdles.

Best of luck.

I concur with what has been said so far. To be be brutally-honest, on paper you would look a very average student to a potential supervisor and in the face of more qualified competition (Masters/1st class UGs), your application would probably be rejected in the first round. If you really are that keen to do a PhD you should do a Masters first. The dissertation will be a small taster of PhD life. The other thing you could do is spend the next 6 months or so (up to PhD application season) talking to academics, networking, and trying to get yourself known as an enthusiastic, motivated candidate prior to application. I got my funded PhD without a Masters (they stipulated I should have a 2:1, but in reality they required a 1st from me which is what I eventually got), but got my place because I'd built a relationship over a number of months with the prospective supervisor developing the proposal.

Perhaps one way to think about it is 'what can I bring to the table which makes me stand out from the rest?'. From here, the best way is probably to do a Masters and spend that year making friends in academia and see where it leads. Suffice to say, if you intend to go straight from Masters to PhD, you need to appear an outstanding student from day 1 of the Masters.

I must say I'm extremely suprised that people are saying a 2.1 will not get you onto a PhD. I have written a number of grant applications for PhD students and every single funding body I have come across requires that students have a 2.1 or above: not a 2.1 and a masters, or a first.

The fact that you are in touch with even one faculty member is encouraging; that's one more that most students. My supervisor frequently gets reference requests for students he hasn't heard from in years (the record being 27 years). I think you have a better chance that you give yourself credit for. That's not to say it will happen for you, btu you have as much chance as anyone else.

If you want to do a PhD in biology, then you don't *need* a masters (unless you want to do a PhD in a topic unrelated to what you have previously studied) although doing one may be beneficial, and a 2(i) is fine.

What I would recommend, however, is that you get some experience before you launch into this, particularly if you have confidence issues. A PhD is not the pathway to personal affirmation and reassurance. Which doesn't rule you out of doing one if you lack confidence or have been depressed (I speak with some experience here) but it would be really beneficial if you came to a PhD well equipped in that regard. And I think the best way to do that would be to get some research experience without the pressure of a PhD first. So apply for some research technician/research assistant jobs, get stuck in, start learning, and feel your confidence grow as you develop skills without having the whole 'Oh my goodness my funding runs out in X months/years and I have no data' stress of a PhD.

If you do think of doing a Masters (which you're too late for this year, but could do next September, either self funded (you have 12 months to save, or apply for funding)) then choose wisely. Pick something that is actually going to plug a skills or knowledge gap, rather than just doing one for the sake of it. If you don't manage to get any research experience before then, consider doing an MRes as this might help you feel more confident about applying for PhDs.

Good luck! Anything is possible.

Oh, one other thing. Another advantage of working as a tech/research assistant first is that it gives you a better appreciation of (i) the reality of the projects and (ii) the kind of group you're in, before you commit yourself to a PhD. Having dropped out of a PhD myself (and looking to do another one in the future) I cannot emphasise enough the need to feel assured about both the nature of the project and knowing what makes you tick as a researcher, as well as assessing how you interact with potential supervisors.

Try http://www.jobs.ac.uk/ as a starting point.

or

www.findauniversityjob.com:-)

A 2.1 without a masters is definitely enough to get a funded PhD place in biology (but not in most arts/humanities subjects). I know a ton of people who have done that, and at good universities too. Depts are used to writing references for years after students leave so don't worry about that. The gap though, may be problematic ,and I second the suggestion of working in a similar environment - some sort of techinical support, or maybe even some voluntary work if you could fit that in, to show a real interest and committment to the field. A lot depends on your area of interest as competition and funding varies a lot.

Well I don't think you have missed the boat. I got onto a funded PhD program with a 2.1, no masters and having 2 years out of uni. A masters is not essential for a science PhD, a good 2.1/first is really enough to do a PhD. New techniques can be learnt, and yes biology changes but the basics stay pretty much the same. I didn't have much in the way of lab experience due to the nature of my undergrad degree, but that didn't bother my supervisor as I was enthusiastic and picked up stuff quickly.

What sorts of jobs have you been doing? I know on some applications I did they allowed for people that had been out of university for some time and accepted references from employers. If you are feeling out of touch then a masters might be a good idea, there are masters studentships available or you could consider taking out a career development loan to cover the cost of an MSc. You could try to contact your old lecturers and see if they do remember you, there is no harm in trying.. explain you want to do a phd and need references etc and see what they say.

But like some of the others have said, make sure you pursue a PhD for the right reasons and not just as a last resort. Its a tough process and can be hard on people so it's not the sort of thing you should go into lightly.