I'm currently working on my MSc dissertation (part-time, distance learning) and I'm applying to undertake a PhD on the same basis.

I'm wondering what I could be letting myself in for! Any tips or advice appreciated (especially as I've returned to academia while working full-time (for many years)?.

Hi LBaines, congratulations on deciding to do a PhD. I can't really comment or give advice on doing a PhD part-time. However, there have been quite a few posts over the past few months about this and I'm aware that some people who use this forum are doing a part-time PhD. It might be worth doing a search of the past forum threads to see what you can find out. Good luck.

I completed my Masters and PhD part-time. I wasn't working, but I was (and am) very seriously ill, with only about 5 good hours total throughout a week I could use for study. So very limited!

I was lucky that I'd studied my arts Bachelors degree with the Open University, so was already used to independent learning. You'll be picking up the same skills in your Masters, and these will stand you in good stead for your PhD which will also be part-time.

I think the biggest problem I found was isolation. So much of student support at my university was based around students who were on campus, whereas I was at home, and could only go in very rarely. For most of the time this was ok, but when I hit real lows it was difficult to put problems in perspective and I often wished I could chat to someone. I had a good friend (also part-time) who met me for coffee, and we'd email a lot. And this forum was a life-saver.

I also think you have to be really disciplined to put in the work week after week. Unless you are for example a school teacher with an extended summer break you need to work on the PhD steadily, week after week after week. Different working patterns suit different people, but you will need to find what works for you. And the PhD will be more time-consuming than the Masters.

It's also important to be realistic about what you are able to manage time-wise. For example would you be able to go to conferences? Would you want to take on any teaching responsibilities? I got very good at saying no to things, largely due to the illness, also due to lack of time. I focused on what I needed to do to get through the PhD, and did that to the best of my ability.

Also you will probably need to allow time on campus for training events. These are increasingly obligatory at my university, and they take place during the working week. If your uni has these you will be expected to attend them, even if you are part-time. So factor that into account.

And remember it's a marathon you're setting out on, not a sprint. So find a working pattern and set-up that suits you. My PhD was studied over 6 years. You need dedication, but it can be very rewarding.

Good luck!

Bilbo, Thanks for the tips. I'm sort of used to working on my own somewhat as our Masters group of 12 only met every 3 months for teaching sessions at the university, and now we've finished the taught part of the programme and are doing our dissertations, we're each on our own with supervisor and tutor 180 miles away. What I miss now is being part of that immediate community as my dissertation's in a different area to most of theirs.

To offset this, I've a couple of colleagues in my professional network a colleague at work are already doing their PhDs part-time and I've a small network of close friends to bounce-off.

And I'll go through the archives to see what I can find. I'm glad I've stumbled across this forum as I've somewhere to touch base with.

I am a part-time PhD student starting back in May 2005. I was working then full-time with a heavy clinical on-call commitment. I basically worked in the lab at weekends (not all w/e!) and did lots of experimental work to get the data. In the evenings i would input all of the data into spreadsheets and do some stats on this. I took annual leave to cover the three phase training days that were compulsory and if there were others that were useful I would try to attend. I found some courses could be done through work too, such as research training days, stats training and had involvement with the R&D dept for ethics applications etc. The library at work was great for search engines and paper access so I didn't use the uni library for much. Tutorials with my supervisor were in the evening at a local pub as we both lived very close by! Since the data collection phase I have been on maternity leave (twice) and relocated. I am currently looking after three babies at home in the day and working my thesis at night when they are in bed. I put in about 15 hours a week. My library access is limited to remote access to the uni or a reciprocal arrangement with my local uni. My supervisory sessions are conducted using skype so we video conference monthly-ish. I have to say it has been hard and there have been unforeseen changes in circumstances along the way (marriage, babies, three moves, career break etc!) That said I am still here hopefully with submission in the new year. I think for part-time study it is isolating unless you can stay in contact with other likeminded souls. People outside of the PhD world will not understand the magnitude and may think you are bonkers. As long as you are aware of these things and are prepared for the long haul then go for it. See this as a personnal goal with enthusiasm rather than a means to get higher up the ladder. If you get promotion or other career opportunities post PhD that is the icing on the cake :-)

Hi!
I am working on my P/T PhD (writing up at the moment), while working F/T, living in Greece and having English as second language!
So, adding to distance and work, there is the barrier of language, as well!
I have a very strict routine and I am (almost always) very disciplined.
You have to have a programme. You have to arrange your PhD aroung your non-working time and at the same time have some time for yourself...
It can be done, but it is difficult. And Bilbo gave the best advice: It is a marathon, not a sprider!

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Hi LBaines,
I followed the route you are describing doing a PT MSc before starting my PT PHd. I have a full time job but can do a bit whilst at work. As with everyone else's advice I find that pacing myself is the key. As long as I can do 20 - 25 hrs of moderate intensity work on it a weekI think I am staying on top of things. However being PT and distance learning is lonely (so this forum is great) and it can be difficult to judge how good the progression is. As a guide I am doing about a third more work per week for the PHd than I was for the MSc and working in a more focused way per hour.
Key for me has been a 100% supportive family - if I was not married I would propose to my wife again :) They are missing out on lots of stuff like time with me and holidays ( I am self funding).

Thank you for all your comments.

Work has funded the MSc and I'm wanting to the PhD as a personal goal, not for any career advantage (as I will be entitled to retire in the next few years). It also gives me street cred with my 20 something daughter! I seem to like academia and the MSc/PhD provide a structure / discipline for researching and writing.

How many hours a week do you think that I should be aiming to work for? The Masters takes about 12 -15 hours a week at present (with some flexibility /peaks and troughs on the dissertation).

And I'm really glad to have found this forum.

Personally, I work around 4-5 hours every day. After my F/T work and after having lunch at my parents' (it is an advantge to live near your mum...)
Of course there are days when I work more (even whole nights) because I want to finish immediately my tasks (I know it is crazy, but that's me) and there are other days when I do nothing, because I just can't even look at PhD stuff...

You will find this alone. It depends on the subject, on your other commitments, on the work you have to do....

Good luck! And welcome!!!!!!!

I guess it depends a little on your subject area but I read somewhere that there's kind of an expectation of around 18 hours per week for a PT PhD. I suppose that's just halving a 37 hour week, considered as a full time job though, so how useful that is I wouldn't like to say for sure.

I've just started a PT PhD too. Am just getting my head round schedules etc. but I'm in a different situation for most here, in seems, in that I think I'm half way between FT and PT and I would love to finish in 4/5 years rather than 6/7! I've cut down my working week so am teaching for anything between 6 and 13 hours per week (depending on the time in the semester) and PhDing for the rest of that. Currently that's equating to 2 days a week on campus doing a 6/7 hour day but will go up to 3 days a week from next week until at least February which is well exciting!

I think your MSc experience will have set you up well in terms of the pitfalls ie isolation etc. And you sound like you're doing it for all the right reasons and with a good support network in place. So go for it and good luck!

Hi.

I'm FT working, PT PhD-ing.  I acknowledge i' m not typical in this but i probably work about 30 hours a week.. largely due to an inability to sleep. I'm grateful for it at the moment, getting so much done !,  but hope it subsides post PhD.

That said, I'm thoroughly enjoy it and so much as its exhausting, frustrating, challenging etc it's also fab :-)

No disrespect meant but if you are of the older variety ;-) then could I propose that you are studying out of personal interest, love of subject, a personal challenge...  there will be pressure, clearly, but not quite in the same way as the young pups on here ( of which i am not one) who are fighting to get a foot on the career ladder.    In this you, and I, are probably lucky.

You are letting yourself in for a roller coaster ride that's for sure, and it is difficult .. but I don't know anything worthwhile that isn't. Herein endeth my rant. 

Best, Chuff. 

Congrats!

I can only give similar advice to that already posted here - my main recommendation is to try to write a tiny amount every night. Then, even while you're working away at your day job you'll be turning things over in the back of your mind. I tend to do my best thinking while I'm walking to work...

And that's a great point raised by Chuff - I'm doing my PhD out of love for my subject and a personal challenge - it's still an enormous challenge with the end nowhere in sight, but I'm sure it's a very different experience to career-related PhDs...

All

Thank you for all your comments. And yes, I'm doing it out of love, personal interest and as a challenge. I currently work full-time and doing the MSc dissertation is more like being in free-fall. I'm hoping that there'll be more support or at least options to learn how to use statistical analysis of data, research methods etc.

Afraid that that wasn't my experience going from Masters to PhD. There was much more support and useful training in my Masters course. My university put on training for PhD students as well, but it was either far too generic, or started too late for me to take advantage of it. This was particularly exasperating for me as a funded student, because AHRC's award for me included an extra payment to my university to pay for more training, but I gained little in return.

Also it was based at the university during the working week, so I had to be able to go in there. I would be surprised if training at your university was different.

Basically, make the most of what you have now. You should have good supervisor support later, but other support may be more limited, especially part-time and at a distance.