Hello all,

Some late night musings from me.

I remember in the last year of my undergrad I had to work all the hours I could in a grotty bar in the city centre so I could manage financially. I would finish work at 3 or 4 am sometimes, walk home as I couldn't afford the taxi fare, and then get up the next day and work solidly on my university stuff. I was so determined to do amazingly well in my degree. (Disclaimer: this isn't a plea for sympathy, I know some people have a much much harder time)

Then I started thinking about masters and PhDs and I realised if I was going to afford to do these things I was going to have to put in some serious graft and that it could take years. Again, it only made me more determined to do it. When a studentship I wanted came up I remember telling friends that I would sell my own organs to be given the chance.

Luckily it never came to that and I got the studentship ,-) But now the days when I feel any great ambition are very very few and far between. I want to stay in academia and I don't think in the long run that there's another job I would enjoy more or am better suited to. But I see people doing all they can to improve their Cv's, organizing conferences left right and centre and I just don't have that kind of motivation.

I still love my subject as much as ever. So I wonder if sometimes I am too comfortable?! I have a very supportive supervisor, a great network at the university and I'm doing fine financially. So it's easy for me to tick by, doing what's expected of me but no more.

I'm not looking for answers by the way, but can anybody relate? Bear in mind I've had a few tins tonight :-)

Hi KC

Nice to hear that you're doing fine! Sounds like it's much needed after your gruelling u'grad degree and all that work and poverty. How far are you into the PhD? I think for the middle bit (if that's where you are), it just ticks along, and I know I kind of went into cruise control (and any other metaphors that are applicable!). The initial excitement and impetus has worn off, the stress of writing up hasn't yet kicked in, and the middle part just flows along...I also didn't feel overly ambitions during this period - and am still not, despite theoretically being 6 mths away from submitting (!). But I can relate. As for others doing more, well, obviously you've set your own work pace and it works for you, which is great. Don't compare yourself to others, therein lies madness. But have you considered that maybe you do need to push yourself a bit more? Are you doing conference papers and journal articles? These are painful but necessary. And if you want to stay in academia, are you doing any tutoring? Teaching experience also does count.

While it's essential to pace yourself, you also need to make the most of opportunities, so maybe you should have a chat to your sups about taking on a bit more...

If you want to stay in academia, make sure you have a serious talk to either your supervisor (if you think they have a good idea of what the current job market is like - some older people don't) or one of the younger lecturers about what you need to have on your cv to be competitive in your field. In some fields you really do need to know exactly how hard it will be to get an academic job, so that you can act realistically. Remember there's a big time lag in some subjects between submitting an article and it actually being published. Then you at least know what you need to do. It is easy to get into a comfortable rut and then suddenly realise you're nearing the end, and haven't done much to make yourself employable inside or outside academia (don't neglect the need for a plan B), but in that last 6 months there really isn't much time to do anything other than write up. Having said that - the person I knew who did the most 'cv-building' stuff, got so carried away with it, that he still hasn't got anywhere near finishing his thesis, so there needs to be a happy medium.

Hi both,

Thanks for your replies. Just to clarify, I have actually been doing quite a lot of 'cv-building' stuff. I'm just going into my second year and I've started teaching, I've presented at a couple of conferences with another one coming up and I've got a (very, very minor) publication. I probably should have explained this in my post! The problem is not so much the things I've done, but my attitude generally. I didn't do any of those things because I had a desire to them, they just happened to come along and I went with it. My supervisor made sure I got the teaching job and is now trying to get me onto a module covering my research area next year. I've never really thought 'right! What can I do next?'
It's not even so much the part about getting a job, as the whole PhD generally. I write because I have to, or I have a deadline, not because I want to or crave the satisfaction of having things finished. I really am rambling now!
Sue I think you might be right about certain parts of the PhD just ticking along. I just miss that fire in my belly sometimes!

KC, I completely relate to what you're saying. I often think back to my undergraduate days, especially the final year, and gape in awe at the determination I had then. It's funny, I didn't think I was working overly hard at the time but I used to work in the library all the hours during the day when I didn't have classes, then head home for dinner and actually go back out to the Uni library until closing time. I wanted to do well and constantly had the end in sight and applied myself to that end with the necessary energy and passion. Now, once it hits about 8 or 9 in the evening, I just can't seem to drag my sorry self back to work. Like you, I do love my subject but I have to force myself to sit down and write and am constantly amazed at the energy others seem to put into related (but not obligatory) tasks, like organizing conferences etc. I feel so un-dynamic and unambitious sometimes, even though I do think academia is the only career for me. I am (hopefully) nearing the end now and have presented at various conferences and have a couple of small publications... but it is, as I think you implied, more a question of the difference in motivation levels between myself in the past and now. I think you are perhaps being a bit hard on yourself. It is important to keep adding to the CV but the PhD process in general requires stamina more than flights of passion. I love my subject but the reality is that when doing a doctorate, most of the time you just have to force yourself to work even though you don't want to. It's not like studying for exams, in some ways it's less pressurized but ultimately more grueling and it's hard if not impossible to sustain the same level of passion for the whole journey.

I always find that committing to do a conference presentation or submitting something to an editor gives me a bit of an extra challenge and some welcome time away from chapter-writing. Although before doing these things I often have thoughts like 'I can't be bothered', during the process of doing them I get a little spark of passion that I don't get from everyday thesis work.

I think you should cut yourself some slack. Sounds to me like you're doing well. You will notch up CV material bit by bit.

I too can completely relate to what you're saying. I'm also in my second year now and feel no great passion and no great drive right now. Again, I write because I have to, I do what I have to do, and can't summon up the energy or the drive to do anything more. Like you in the BA I was so focussed, worked so very very hard, aimed for the first and went all out to get it (and did). I couldn't imagine not making that grade, it would have been too upsetting after working every hour God sent to do it! I got onto the MA, again, I went at it 100%, all i could think of was making the grade so that I could claim the golden cow of the PhD place. I clearly remember the euphoria of this time last year lol, I'd made it - ahhhh sweet innocence....... lmao! I wonder if, in some respect, the way a lot of us feel now is because there is no clear goal, and the ultimate goal is so very far away. We've proved ourselves, we have our BAs, MAs etc, most of us have our funding, those in the second year still have such a very long way to go and there is no immediate aim in sight, not like the taught courses where the essays are lined up and its constant deadlines every single one of which count towards that final goal. We're also, lets be frank here, absolutely bloody knackered!!! We've worked so hard for so many years already that we're on the point of burn out, maybe this second year is a time to coast a bit - do what we need to get done to be ready for next year and the write up (hopefully)?

I still love my subject, but the passion isn't there really, well, it is, but I think its buried under the pile of 'stuff to do' and its hard to dig it out. This is such an inbetween stage - the reading is pretty much done, the sources found, now I've got to travel around to check them out (can I be naffed???) and then analyse all the data. I'm hoping that stage will psyche me up a bit more again and excite me. I'm also tbh feeling slightly disillusioned - I guess that academia isn't quite what I thought it would be, that thing I strived to hard to qualify for is actually not the great glory I thought lol lol. I dunno KC, I think we will get it back, I hope so, I just think in some respects speaking personally I'm so tired, haven't had a break in so many years now, and I think its probably just that. I think once I begin the analysis and the write up it will slot back in. I must be feeling something as my supervisor said how great it was seeing somebody so fired up (me????) when I was discussing my sources with him the other day. It must be there, just muffled slightly lol. As for 'extra stuff' like organising etc, oh heavens - the thought is agonising, more time, more work.... noooo!!! It will come, but just not right now ;-)

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I'm sorry to hear others seem to have lost their passion too, but I'm also kind of relieved, on a selfish note :-(



Kaymoy, I liked what you said about the PhD requiring determination rather than 'flights of fancy'. It's funny, this is exactly what I was told over and over again before I started, and I've even doled out this kind of wisdom recently to those starting their first year like some wise old sage. But I guess I never fully understood what it meant until now, and I'm sure I'll be tested even more in the future. As you said Stressed, it really is so entirely different to undergrad (and, I imagine, masters). You never get that sense of completion, or the sense of satisfaction when you get a high grade. So I guess it's hard to keep up that relentless enthusiasm when you know that nothing is going to be 'finished' until the end, and even that can be a vague and woolly process (corrections etc).



I can live with it though, I think. And actually, these past couple of days I have had some moments of inspiration and determination. Mostly when I was preparing for my seminar group, which also got me thinking. Although the PhD brings more freedom in some respects, its also very restrictive too. I could get madly carried away with writing undergrad coursework because I knew when that was finished I'd move onto a whole new shiny topic. In contrast, I've spent a year reading up on one very narrow frame of time, and dragging two texts in particular through flaming hot coals, again and again. In a way, I love that- I enjoy getting down to the nitty gritty of a problem. But I'm not so one-dimensional that I don't occasionally get fed up with it.

Ha ha, that made me laugh. I feel the same, and I look at those who are so committed to their jobs- not just academics but anyone who works more than 8 hours a day- with complete awe. Where did the go-getter in me go?!



Like I say, these past couple of days haven't been so bad and it's actually because I've got loads and loads on. Maybe that's the key- pile it up and plough through!