Hi all,
First off, I love this forum as it's about the only place where I realize I'm facing the same issues as everyone else in my shoes. Now for the topic...

I'm more or less out of a long term relationship and have been for a year. 90% of the time I feel like the single life is best and allows me to focus on research/writing. 10% of the time I desperately want some companionship. But dating takes so much effort. I know this sounds really sad, but I've just found that if I meet someone I'm interested it uses up too much of my mental capacity. I'm thinking I may just let the next 1.5 years elapse in the single state and worry about it after. I'm sure the odd casual opportunity will come along ,)

Also, as prospective prominent researchers, we'll tend to move around a lot in the first decade of our careers. How do people in committed relationships cope with this issue (i.e., the inevetability that at some point it's going to be significant other vs.career)? It's one thing if they are a nurse or school teacher and can't find employment anywhere, but quite a different story if they're a specialist.

Not so much a question as a rambling...

Cheers

this is the very issue I'm facing or will be. Me and my OH are both PhDers, he has finished, mine is up in oct 2010. He is currently in a job, but would like to get back into academia at some point. The worst thing is where do we go? whereever he goes, there is nothing for me and vice versa. We are trying to stay around london as there is more liklihood of jobs here, but realistically I will prob have to take a consultancy job to get by until we get a lucky break. We also have a dog and 2 cats so we really have to buy a house where we do go, rather than rent, which makes it even harder (although wouldn't change this as love the animals!)

Hi Gb, your alias is interesting...

I could have written this post, except without the question marks. I woulf def want a family and kids around 30, but being 6 years away from that mark, I have absolutely prioritized career. I dont want a relationship now, honestly, for my 'spare' time I'd rather invest at this point on sleeping and such like.

The other bit is poverty+ambition make a drastic combination and un/fortunately I am blessed with large proportions of both poverty and ambition. Resultant spare time is not to be disturbed (some say enhanced) by other people.

So yes, priority over next 1.5 is to get the Dr before 27th b'day, other priorities are multiple research stuff, a book, a place of my own, and all this in the next 4 yrs perhaps.

No, partner doesnt feature here.

But that's my story, entirely my take on my life...

PhDbug,
The alias has nothing to do with who I am, just thought of something quick that would be sufficiently anonymous!
I certainly agree with your take. I thought it might be unusual...maybe not. I watch my flatmates and the ridiculously (long) periods of time they spend with their significant others. I don't think I could handle that. What a damper on productivity. I realize I sound like a robot or something, but it's true! I've also noticed that being with someone can make me lazy because they have a weaker work ethic and the laziness tends to be contagious.

W.

very true GB - my hubby gets home at 5 and I essentially do nothing but a bit of admin after that point. Altho it is useful having him as a PhD reference - he's been through it (and he can do stats) which is always a bonus. I don't think I could do it with somone who didn't understand the type of work involved.

I moved abroad to take up a fellowship to fund the last part of my PhD. I have been in a relationship for 3.5 years and we lived in the same city. Whilst being apart means that I have been able to do more writing in time that would have previously been "us time", without the support there it has also been isolating and depressing at points. They (significant other) have been very understanding and supportive about the neccesity to search for jobs in geographically diverse places, but i also know that there is a limit to this and one doesn't want one's partner to always be at a distance for an unidentifiable period of time i.e. "just one more postdoc", "one more junior lectureship". I don't want to reach a certain age and feel that I have sacrificed satisfying relationships for a career, that although a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE part of my life ambitions, is not the whole story.

I am really, really hoping that I can find a postdoc or job in academia within the UK again and not have to search for a short term fellowship overseas again.

A relationship can be sustained for a short term that way, but I don't want to be in a LDR for longer than necessary. I wouldn't mind living in a different city in the same region or even a few hours train ride away. it would just work better then living in two different countries, cultures, and time zones!!

Moving back in a few months and handing in should give me time to reconnect and hopefully find something closer to home!

This sort of issue is very much at the back of my mind - well, not 'dating', as I'm already married with kids, but the fact that I'm just not in a position to chase jobs all over the country (or all over the world!). But I live within a commutable distance of quite a few major unis, so I'm just hoping I'll be able to find some sort of work - part-time, whatever - until the kids have left home. Or even just do independent research for a bit. Then maybe it'll be time to think about upping sticks.

(How ludicrous is that - not waiting till I'm past the 'moving around' stage of my career to have kids, but waiting till the kids have left home before entering the 'moving around' stage of my career! I'll still 'only' be in my early 40s, though, so hopefully it's not all *too* ridiculous.)

Hi GB
I just wanted to say this is an issue that has always been a bit of a biggie for me. While not being very openly ambitious, I think there is a big ambitious streak posing as stubbornness hiding away in my subconscious somewhere.... I've always wanted to make the best of myself, and I know I have the potential to get a good job in what I apply myself to..however, I am a big sucker for relationships and tend to try to put other people first. Which is all good until it starts challenging or affecting how my own career is going to go then my ambition-posing-as-stubbornness rears up...
Generally I would say that having a relationship while doing a PhD is fine, especially at the start of careers, everyone tends to be very busy with work and if you find someone who you connect with and want to be in a relationship with then I think it's definitely worth making time for them. However the crunch comes when the big job hunt is on at the end. If you have both made it safely through the writing up phase, which I can tell you, as partner to just finished PhD student, is not a fun time at all, then the job serach is just as tough. As Chris has said, LDRs can work for a relatively short period of time, but endless additions to this can be very difficult. I have been apart from my boyf for nearly 2 years now, and it's very difficult. We will be apart for at least another year, and then depending on where I can get a job, we might be together or apart longer. However I do know that I have no intentions of spending the next 5 years apart, so something will have to give somewhere.
So I think my point is, personally, if you meet someone and you really want to be with them, don't fight it, but so long as you there may be some very tough choices ahead. It all depends on what you want yourself really.

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I'm in my third year of my PhD and an currently writing up. I've been with my partner for 8 years and really don't think I would have got to where I am without him. I think, as with everything, it all comes down to how you manage your priorities. To me, while I am extremely ambitious (I think all PhDers must be), my ambition means nothing unless I have someone to share it with. My OH isn't in academia at all... in fact the thought of going back to uni for him is a huge no no. I love that I can talk to him about stuff completely unrelated to what I do. I love listening to his stories and getting impartial advice from him if I'm ever stressed. I don't feel at all like having him there hinders my productivity. I made the decision at the start that my PhD work would not interfere with my personal life, and that has worked well for us. In fact, at times when I'm stressed he'll be the one encouraging me to work in the evening or do a few hours over the weekend. He wants me to succeed just as much as I want to and I find that a huge motivator. If I fail, I've failed him as well. He's also more than happy to move where ever I go to once I finish.



I realise I sound like a huge sap here, but the point I'm trying to get across is that it doesn't have to be hard work being in a relationship and doing a PhD. Obviously it's different for everyone, and maybe I've just been really lucky, but I think they key to having a successful relationship and getting a PhD comes down to how you manage your priorities and your partner realising that you have more than just them to prioritise. It's about compromise I guess. It may be different when dating, but I can't really comment on that.

I agree, I've been in a relationship for the last 3 years and now I've started my PhD it's great to have someone to talk to and to spend my spare time with who isn't doing a PhD! I feel like I can stay in touch with the real world and not get too lost in the intricacies of my chosen field of study - my partner would be bored stupid if all I could talk to him about was my PhD, so it forces me to think about other things every evening, which I think is pretty healthy anyway.

I have to admit I'm a little nervous about what will happen at the end of the PhD though! My partner did say once that he'd move with me to wherever a postdoc job came up (he works from home so can be based anywhere, which is lucky), but I know how much he likes his life where we are, and the big group of friends he has, and it'll be a big thing to ask him to follow me to somewhere where he knows nobody. Hopefully he'll do it though! Either that or a job will come up within an easy commute of where we live!

The early stages of a relationship are always really overwhelming though - I can see how that could really interfere with someone's studies. All that gazing off into the distance with a stupid grin on your face.... :-) But overall, we can't put our lives on hold for three or four years, if opportunities come up we shouldn't hide away from life just because we're studying. Not the same as going out actively looking for that love of one's life, of course....

I've done a lot of thinking about this - my fiancé has a secure job and I wouldn't expect him to leave it. His job has the potential always to earn more than mine plus if we want children etc I can see it being even more important. I basically realized pretty quickly that I'm never going to want an academic career more than I'll want to be with him. We're in the SE so there are lots of possible institutions, but if I have to do something else, such as teach in a school, then I will. And this is all assuming I ever finish! Not going well at present and one of the main reasons I have issues with the PhD is the feeling of putting my life on hold. On the other hand, being totally unqualified for anything else and there being no jobs anyway, I suppose I shall plough on regardless! :p

George bush, as you will see, the asnwer is not a Yes or a No. You will have to recognize not only what are your priorities are, but *when* you want toprioritise what. I think it's more a question of balance of stuff. Someone with a career and a fantastically highflying one, but no partner/kids might prhaps have to balance more/differently than someone with job plus family. alternatively I know many stay at home moms who balance stuff that's just mind boggling.

If a relationship happens it happens, and then you decide. if it doesnt, then it will hapoen when it has to. There's no should or shouldn't in it. Personally, I have serious doubts about my own competencies and consider myself to be miserable at multi tasking and I just *knew* that I needed my late teens and early twenties to focus onthe stuff I love more than anything else. strike mid twenties, and we'll see where life takes me :)

Bug

Relationships at any stage of life are about balance--life is about balance--and there is never a perfect time to do things. Life never does fall neatly into place. Many things can come along and rock the boat of a relationship or a career, and they will--things you can neither anticipate nor necessarily control or have been able to avoid. Successful relationships are elastic--there is room within them for each partner to grow and change over time--as people do. Within a successful relationship, each partner must be willing to compromise and the dreams of the other partner must be important as well. There is no easy solution, no perfect time, no period that after which you finish PhD/get married/get academic job/move to certain place that things just slot into place. Just doesn't happen. Life is happening all around you all of the time, and doing a PhD is not putting life on hold--it IS life--and yes, it may mean some things are delayed or not even possible--but it means other things are not delayed and ARE possible. Its about choices and opportunity. I would neither squander my PhD and a professional opportunity for a relationship, nor would I squander a relationship for a PhD and a professional opportunity--if the relationship is worthwhile and going to last--there is a way to find compromise and middle ground and make things work. If that cannot be found, its unlikely the relationship had what it takes to go the distance anyway. And something else would have knocked it off centre and ended it.

+1 Olivia :-)

I wish my PhD had much to do with the couple/career uncertainties ahead.

My other half stopped studying at 18 and works in bars/cafes, or sometimes building sites - so far so good in terms of flexibility for him... My dream plan is to go back and lecture in my native country within five years, and he is learning the language. However, if I get the PhD and am lucky enough to land an academic job after that, I won't have as much of a choice in terms of location as I would have hoped for. Because he is carer for both his parents, it will basically depend on how they are by then, and on their good will to follow us anywhere. If they won't, he won't. And I won't. Simple as that. Because really, I need him more than any career - at least for now! Also, there is no financial consideration here - a waiter can earn more than a junior lecturer when the tips add up... so perhaps if I'm a Dr Nadia one day I'll go back to the place I used to wait tables at when doing my MA...  :p

This I'm writing without any anxiety or resentment by the way. It's not really a choice, it's just the obvious way. And if it wasn't then probably I should be asking myself whether I still want to be in the relationship.