Hi everyone

My sup and I are writing a conference paper together, and to date, whenever we do joint work, she gets first author status, as she does most of the work and I get to tag along. However, with this paper, I have written about 70% of it and have taken main carriage of it. I have used one of her previous theories and significantly advanced it. However, overall project idea and underlying theory is hers. She's also editing the paper. Does my input qualify me to be first author? Currently she's got top billing. Normally this wouldn't bother me, but I'm also hoping this will become a journal article.

Am not very assertive with these sorts of things - should I just let it go? Treasure the opportunity and experience and not worry about status issues?

We have a really good relationship and she's a fab supervisor.

Many thanks.

Hi there

depends. My entire phd is inspired by one of my sup's 'unansweres question/challenges' launched at our field, about 4 yrs ago...

we have a great time discussing these ideas and first yr conversations are becoming a cross-generational dialogue piece at conferences and a journal article in a high up jornal..

she is first on it all. has offered me numerous times, saying 'you are the one taking it all forward' when we first sent it to the first conference..

but I refused every time, for I felt this all starts off from her work, and I *truly* didnt feel at all bothered, she is an extremely inspiring mentor. I delievred the paper in Europe first, then she in London, then again me int he States next month and then we submit for publication, it's fun really and I absolutely want her to be first author!


But depends on the situation, if it is exploitative, then I guess you need to decide, pl dont go by my example, as this is not the norm always.

I would have thought your input is sufficient to be first author. Also, if you are the main person "driving the writing", you should be first author, I think. Why not ask her whether she agrees to for you to be first author this time, as you have worked on the paper a lot. I think good supervisors give their students a chance to write papers and be first author. If you want to stay in research, you having first author papers is important and I would have thought being a bit assertive in these things is essential. All the best..

Hi Sue,

I think that if you put in most of the work then you should be the first author.

You indicate that you have a good relationship with your supervisor and as such it would not harm to discuss the authorship issue. Perhaps she agrees and everything is fine. If she does not agree and has good points for her to be the first author, you can always still accept that and no harm is done.

I think not discussing the issue could actually have a negative effect on working relations, as you may feel that your input is not recognised as you feel it should be.

Therefore I would suggest to clarify the matter with each other.:-)

Thanks Rick, and everyone, for your advice.

Things have kind of been overtaken really - am still working on the conference paper, but am also writing a journal article. This caused me great anguish, with major rewrites and my sup wanting many corrections. The reviewers also made me rewrite it. Anyway, I sent it off, it got accepted (hurrah!) and now the editor has come back to me and I have to rewrite it again!!!:-( The two reviewers were happy but I have to do another %$#@@!! rewrite!! The editor obviously thinks my writing is crap!!

I just don't think I'm smart enough for academia.

Now I've got a conference paper to write in 10 days; an article rewrite due in just under 2 weeks, and another 6 chapters of my thesis to write by Xmas.

Aagghhrrr! Having a meltdown!

Hi Sue,

I agree with the other posters that since you have a good relationship with your sv you could ask her about it. Perhaps in a non-specific way - "what would I need to do to be first author" rather than making it specific to this article. I think it's an important question to ask as it's part of career development to know about the publishing process.

Are you first author on the paper you mention below? It sounds like you've done a lot of work on that one already.

I've been at the overwhelmed stage for a while too...it helped a few weeks ago when you guys posted the lists of work as I knew I wasn't the only one climbing this enormous mountain. I currently alternate between a state where I think about everything I have to do, all at the same time, and how I'll never manage it, but that makes me breathe too fast and is not conducive to work. The alternative state is where I have to assume everything will be ok and just focus on the particular task I have set myself that day. It's the only way I can move forwards. It's a little bit head in the sand, but at least it's warm under there!

I don't have any words of advice for you, but I think we're in very similar boats!

haha, i'm just like you cakegirl, i just blank it all out and try not to think about it otherwise i have wee panic attacks like i did two weeks ago, and thats not conducive to work! i think head under the sand is good! (its better than under the duvet which is what i was doing for a while!)

you'll get there sue, you're doing so well, just keep trudging along, and drinking sweet sweet tea ;-)

Hi Sue,

you mentioned that perhaps you were "not intelligent enough for academic writing". Presume tongue in cheek remark, as obviously the fact that you are writing various bits and editors want to publish it, shows the opposite.

Indeed I think it is perseverence that counts. However must admit you having to rewrite after a rewrite, that sounds very frustrating! As such you have my sympathy, do not give up!:-)

lol Alpaca - glad I'm not the only one!

Sue, hope your meltdown has eased a bit and you feel a bit better. Hope the day just starting for you proves to be a productive one.

I'm off for some trash tv and sleep before getting back to the grindstone tomorrow (when I will write more than today...)

Bon nuit all

Thanks for your support everyone - hugely appreciated. I'd be lost without you guys!!

Well, had a meeting with my sup, and she rightly pointed out that my article had already been accepted and I'd been told by an associate editor that I'd be getting the proofs, and to make only minimal changes. Instead I got this bucketing from the editor - in effect he's gone over the ass. ed.'s head, and she thinks there's some politics there. She also pointed out he's the new ed of this journal, so she thinks he's asserting himself and I'm just the poor hapless target. So - lessons for us all 'eh??

And we've also decided that I don't have to write up one of my case study chapters, and I'm also going to cut back on RA work. Better!

Part of the reason why I had such a hideous meltdown, not just with overwork, was also because if I submit any later than Mar '10, I'm not likely to graduate until June '11 - these things take ages in Australia. And that's just too damn far off!!

So, am over the meltdown and almost ready to start working again.

Thanks again everyone, especially Alpacalover. Hope you all have a productive day. What a life we choose to lead....

Great and what did you decide about the authorship finally? :-)

I'll talk to her about it, but at the moment it's kind of fallen down the list a little. The deadline's been extended, so am doing a bunch of other work. And it doesn't seem so important now, when have been faced with other major difficulties!

OK, update from me - just to make myself feel better really. Approached my sup about being first author and got a very polite 'no' - her project, so she gets top billing. Ah well, that's OK. Now I know - first author status isn't dependent on the amount of work you do, it really does depend on who's the originator of the research.

And about this stupid article - started making changes, took me all w'end to rewrite the first 10 pages, and there's another 35 to go. As I was rewriting, adding in ever more as the editor wanted, I realised that the article would end up being about 5,000 words over the word count - another problem. So, have put it to the side for the moment, will need to talk to this editor, and ultimately, can see me not finishing this. Which makes me feel like a failure, as have written an article, but it won't end up being published. :-( Crap.