Lads and ladies,
Letting aside the fact that much time and money is now gone, really am considering quitting as I do think that even if I complete this accursed beast from the deep (miles from doing so!!!), I would be so browned off research I wouldn't stay in academia for the reason I went back i.e. to teach!

I ain't down, but looking for an answer (which I think I answered) but would like yer opinion. Would ye reckon you would need to become a paper vending machine in order to remain teaching in third level?

I am considering just getting the Masters (second one - doh!) and going for a Hdip in a few years as I do feel the only environment which I really enjoy is teaching and between us, think that academia is like a swimming swan - all graceful above the surface, kicking like an unorganised aylum under it.

As I said, I do think I have answered a lot of questions, but am unsure and would like any opinion (also compounded by the fact that I think I am unemployable - where I get that I don't know ... more issues than a series of Dawson's Creek I tells ya!)

Main thing is that I consider myself blessed and can lose sight of the fact that my family and friends are there whatever I do. Not down about it at all. Dunno about ye, but its scary the times when you get engrossed in questioning your own worth for something that maybe 4-5 people will read!

Hey Bonzo- good to hear from you, it's been a while! Soz to hear the PhD is being such hard work, but glad you aren't getting yourself too down about it. I can't really answer your question unfortch- the only thing I would say is that I don't think I have ever been taught be someone who doesn't have a PhD or other doctorate (seminars aside- loads of PhDers run those as we all know!) so I would check out the opportunities for teaching without the PhD. I know there are lecturers in other subjects at other universities who haven't completed a PhD (a family friend for one!) so you might be alright- perhaps it just depends across unis and subject areas. Is the PhD pretty much unsalvageable or are you just too hacked off to carry on? I agree with the swimming swan thing- I have seen a few ugly sides to academia over the last few years. I think you just need to do a bit of your own research on how easy it is to progress with teaching without a PhD- maybe with the right alternative qualifications it's not too difficult. Keep in touch! KB

The best lecturer I had (by a long stretch) was a Mr, and my final year (MEng) supervisor was also a Mr and was far better than some others. Admittedly I'm an engineer and part of the reason these two were so much better was that they had actually experienced the real working experience of engineers, something sadly lacking in many academics. I suppose my point is that even if you're not a Dr you could be a fantastic lecturer, so long as you bring something more to it (like enthusiasm, which most academics seem to have none of for lecturing). The problem will be getting the job in the first place. That I can't really advise on.

It is dependent on subject area (i.e. whether industrial experience is valued or not) but in most subjects, I think getting a fulltime (and even more permanent) post without a PhD has become very difficult for new entrants even at post 92 universities, who didn't use to be as fixated on the PhD as the entry level qualification as pre-92s.

If you got the PhD and got a job (well assuming there are any jobs around) would you have to churn out publications? I think here the type of employer would be key. I think the government changes on fees, concentration of ersearch funding, doctoral funding etc are going to produce a divide between places that concentrate on the delivery of taught courses and those that still are research-led. So the amount of research expected might vary a lot more in the future between institutions. That's just my guess though.

Ta for the replies lads,
I suppose I am looking all around for someone to answer a question I should be answering myself. I know its unfair to expect someone to come up with the answer for me.

Keen - The PhD, well I reckon I could salvage it but there is so much that would have to change it could be another 2-3 years and between being broke, an unco-operative supervisor and just, as I said before the prospect of ending up doing associated work I hate in order to teach ain't motivating me.

I suppose what I need to do is get my thoughts down on paper and as much as it will hurt, discuss it with the supervisor (not the best of relationships to be honest!). One of the other things as I said before was the whole notion that I think that I am somewhat unemployable as I have spent a lot of my time either in teaching roles or studying ... guess thats a confidence thing, which at times can really let me down.

At the end of the day, I think its just attitude and seperating the PhD from the person.

Really sorry to hear you are feeling like this Bonzo. How far through are you? Is it a couple of years to go or many more? It's just that it sounds like you are going through one of the 'self doubt' questioning stages that everyone talks about or writes about that happen within the phd.

If you love teaching and the second masters and higher dip ed would get you the sort of work that you love (and enable you to take something away with you from all your hard work thus far), then this might be a step. But you know, I'm not where you are at present so I can't answer your questions.
So, guess I'm just trying to say...don't let this get you down too much...glad to see (read) that you have fantastic support from your loved ones-that's pretty amazing isn't it. I think they would support you whatever you do...hope things seem better soon.

Hi Bonzo,
Have you thought about teaching HE in an FE college?
Just a thought!
Mog

Cheers again lads,

Mog - what is FE? Sorry I am not in England.

Mood is generally ok but I think its just an intrinsic lack of faith in meself which I think needs to be addressed by myself. Obviously am a bit down but I do feel that the one thing I have shown to be good at is teaching and have gained more experience at that. Just feel that for the effort needed to get this thing out the gap is too big from various perspectives (time, motivation and money). People do say what about the time already put in but what can you do about that - its the past!

Keen - Sorry for the lack of communication but hope things going well and that you are still being uber-helpful to people on the forum.

As I said before, I think the issue, while manifesting itself in this scenario is just a one of self belief and going for what I really want.

Well off to enjoy some of the weekend - I was lying in bed at 8.30 and was sulking away and then just got up and did a whole load of stuff connected with the lecturing and while it was hard work, by Chr!st I enjoyed it. I know I am having a bit of a hard time with the super but I think an objective meeting with him (at least to clear the air) will have to be had, even though I dread them.

By the way, I know I sound very negative about the whole thing - if things going well, keep in there and strive! We all know this process is lonely and perhaps we all over-analyze stuff too much in our heads, but if its what you want to do, do it! Be strong, be assertive but most importantly, be yourself!

Hi Bonzo, sorry to hear about your predicament. FE is further education in the UK, so colleges and sixth forms. With a Masters, if you did decide to take that route, you would be well qualified to lecture in colleges. Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best of luck. (up)

Cheers walmin
I think I do know what I want to do now and its just get the thing done. I think to be honest, there are a few questions in the back of the head and that I know logically that any sensible person would dismiss them (things like would people see me as a failure and am I actually employable - I know both are positive and even if the second one is true, I could work at getting practical skills to address it). But I am overanalytical and without being too fine a point on it, tend to dwell on issues until they get to me. I think I pin too much on my work and should start living more ... of course that brings me back to the whole thing of in order to do that, you need not a lot of cash but more than a stipend anyways :P
I am going to be positive and suss out my options. Thanks for the advice and as I said before, if you're work is going well or just hit a small hitch, keep in there lads.