I have posted a message before. Just some more advice needed, I'm doing a Phd in art history at the courtauld. I have got funding to do it, but I am not enjoying it, I think mainly because I can't see what I want to do at the end of it. I don't think my Phd will be 'brilliant' enough to get an academic job, and I don't really want one anyway. The other career option, of working in the museum,/gallery sector also doesn't appeal. I already have a totally unrelated part time job working for an NGO. My Phd is making me unhappy and I'm worried I will leave and just be in a really bad position in the job market. I'm thinking about leaving and entering the real world. What does anyone think.

leaving your PhD shouldn't harm your future career prospects unless the job you want requires one.

I thought leaving my PhD would leave a big gaping hole in my CV and would damage my future career prospects but it hasn't at all. I've applied for other PhDs and Masters and the fact that I dropped out of a PhD made no difference as I have been offered a PhD position and place on two masters courses since then.

I suppose how exactly dropping out of a PhD will influence your future career will depend on the manner in which you leave. It is important that you can get a reference from someone who understands and respects your resasons for leaving and who will support your applications for future courses/Jobs.

You sound like your decision has been made. So don't ask for advice, just go for it and quit. Everything else would be an uphill struggle, not because of the hard PhD process but because you don't have any goal at the end as you're not interested in academic or museum career. Quit, get out and enjoy the sunshine. Just don't forget about the poor souls which did not have the guts to make this decision when the time was right - like myself two years ago.

How far in is too far in to get out? Up until the moment you submit? Before the viva? Is there some kind of point of no return with the PhD after which there is the need to carry on regardless, just because you have reached that marker in the project...or?

For me, that "point of no return" was the moment where I had less than six months to go until submission. At this point I thought, well, just pull yourself together and complete the bloody thing. Of course, it's never to late to quit, but I suspect that as time progresses the pain about the wasted time increases. One year after the start I've hit a low point and should have quit. I didn't but I cannot say that it will be worth having pulled myself together. Life is just too short to be in the wrong place doing the wrong thing. Carrying on regardless may sound like determination but it's also pointless - in a way.

I understand completely what you are saying, Jouri. Completing just to complete may or may not be a worthwhile goal. I suppose its down to an individual decision. Its very hard to weigh up in any case...I think that the automatic response people give or you might give yourself is to just complete it because of time, energy, money, effort, whathave you. But I agree--the decision to complete for the sake of completing...not an easy call.

There are pros and cons, there is not one overriding decision, which probably makes it a lot harder.
I think future career and happiness are big deciding factors. I chose to stick it out as didn't want to have failed to have completed it. It took 4 years to hand in, then 5 month wait for viva, then 3 months corrections so wasn't easy as really dragged out and I was miserable and wanted to leave academia.
It is disheartening looking at jobs someone with a lesser qualification (degree/Msc) could get, but I feel justified in asking for the higher end of the pay scale. A lot of it can be experience and personality and how well you can do the job, but PhDs can unlock some higher level positions depending on job title.

I agreed with jouri, it sounds like you have made your mind up so you should go for it. There is nothing good about sticking it out if it is not for you. I wish I'd gone with my gut feeling a year ago but with only a year to go I now feel like it's too late and I may as well finish.I do sometimes wonder whether I will think it was worth it when/if I finish or whether I'll still be thinking I should have quit early on!

What is the "investment" that a university or department has in the completion rates of PhDs? Does this impact standing, rankings, funding chances, etc? On some other forums I have read where students who broached the topic of leaving were treated rather harshly as they tried to work out whether to stay or go. If someone is thinking of leaving, how does treating them badly make them want to stay?!

It does seem as though you don't really know what you want to do in the future, and are in a bit of a panic about that. There is a whole world of jobs out there,and I bet you are young enough to be allowed a false start or two. Number one I would get down to the uni career advice dept, they may be able to suggest areas you haven't even thought of and that might settle you down a bit, and if they suggest sometihng that you really fancy, find out what qualifications you need. Secondly look at what you are doing, did you think it was something you realy felt strongly about, or was it a safe haven, or did you think of it as the natural progression? Thirdly unless you are writing up and deadlines are looming, you have time to consider your options, take that time and think about where you want to be, that should help you decide.

Given what you've said it's a no-brainer: get the appropriate footwear donned, head down, and RUN; run as hard and as fast as you can possibly manage. Arms and legs pumping for all you're worth. Don't stop. Once you reach the hills, breathe in the fresh air deeply, then exhale, and relax, for the madness will have stopped. Forever.

Good luck also in whatever you choose to do next.

Thanks Matt. You said the words I needed to hear.
I've been dragging my feet about quitting for far, far too long.
So if you see a woman laughing manically atop the nearest hill, no need to call the police - it'll be just me, 'breathing' for the first time in years.

However, what the heck do I put on a CV or say in an interview?

I've been at this for 4 years, on and off.
So, what do I put on my CV about the gap since my undergrad degree?

FYI
I've taken breaks due to mental health issues that existed before I started and have been exasperated by the supervisor/department/institution failures in adequate academic support (let alone support for my health needs). I was just too 'frightened' to speak up before now.

so what do you really wanna do in a "real world"? it seems that you are not clear what you are interested in; the only reason I am doing a PhD is that I can imagine being a research guy and teaching. what do you "fancy" yourself as .. just close your eyes and imagine..

Sara, I only post on here rarely and browse the place only now and then.
I'll stop doing both after my viva on May 27th when I'll also be getting away from academia. There's little doubt in my eyes that academia is mostly a bag of b0ll0cks, a bland and far too serious take on itself, and there's about 1 job going per 1000 PhD candidates. I'm happy to leave people to it.

I hope your health improves and you breathe deeply on that hill. As for your cv, just be honest, put down what you've done in your 4 years and move on, trust me actually having a PhD cuts little ice within HE or in the non-academic world... (my opinion, others may disagree) ......

...and don't be afraid to heavily criticise those aspects of your PhD which you have found to be seriously lacking or just run in a p!ss poor fashion. It's perfectly normal to do so and not enough of it goes on. It helps to build a picture of what you place value on and what kind of working culture and ethos you wish to develop in. I've been constantly critical of issues from funding to teaching expectations, and I've had a fairly strong go at my supervisors for lack of detailed feedback on my work. This is probably the only 'profession' I know that barely caters for the career progression of its recruits and openly gets away with it......