hi all, i was wondering if anybody knows how often people actually pass after submissions, i had my viva not so long ago and have been given this option, however due to lots of reasons (baby on the way being one!) i'm considering just walking. I've never felt so despondent in all my life, and feel the changes they recommend don't reflect what i've written and that they seem to have missed the point of the whole piece entirely. Also is it better or worse to be offered a second viva, as i wasnt and at first it thought this was good...however now i'm more scared at the prospect of submitting the simply failing due to the boards recommendations and also that my internal examiner was shall we say less than supportive, so much so has told me i may or may not pass after submission. I'm actually genuienly scared of the stress it took to do the PhD and therefore having to go through it all now whilst pregnant and the effect this may have on me!

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Hi Scaredgirl

I can imagine this stress is the last thing you need right now (congratulations though on the baby though!). Being in a despondent mood myself today, I can completely understand the mindset that makes you want to just walk away and have some peace. But at the same time, you're so close and it seems a shame to give up after several years of hard work.

I'd always assumed that not having a second viva was a good thing, suggesting they're happy enough with you and just want changes to the document, I could be wrong but that was my take. Is there another academic you trust who could go through the suggested changes and maybe give you an outside perspective on them? Perhaps a fresh look could help you see them as more tolerable, away from the associations with the examiners who made them.

At the same time, do all you can to look after yourself and manage your stress, make that as much a priority as the thesis. And if you can afford the time, take a brief break before hitting the work again, after a stressful viva it's no wonder you feel burnt out - give yourself a chance to recharge before going back to it.

Im not sure how to take what they have said, as the examiner was pretty rude in her reply, and a failure would impact hugely on my job (nonetheless now because i need the maternity leave!) therefore if they fail me at the end then i will be left high and dry. Im more hurt that it was my internal examiner not external that slated me to bits!

whats the difference between a resubmission and making major corrections?

its not a didnt pass. Saying that BEFORE i went in i had always been told it was a case of pass/major/minor. hoever i found out from my examiner that no i have not passed, and may not. Its up to them to decide if i carried out the revisions sucessfully, then it goes to the board. However ive lost all faith now because she has been so harsh that i dont feel anything i say will actually change the outcome now. For example they are asking me to justify standard methodological practises as if ive performed them wrong, yet hundreds of published methods routinely did this. Makes me feel so sick to think after all this time ive wasted 4 years of my life for nothing and now look like a complete fool to friends and family and a failure :-(

sorry that should read its not a pass nor any security of one!

sorry that should read its not a pass nor any security of one!

I don't think you've wasted time, nor made a fool of yourself. I know you must feel shattered right now but try not to beat yourself up over it. What do your supervisors say about the response? I'm assuming they didn't see this coming either or they wouldn't have advised submission.
The internal examiner sounds overly harsh, do you think she'd be reasonable if you completed the revisions as requested? Certainly she hasn't given you an outright fail so by all rights, it should be salvageable.

everyone in my dept was confident id pass with minors! id expected the problem to be the writing standard per se, not the actual experiment content, which bascially there is nothing i can do about. To be honest though no, im probably giving up because i cant physically face another 6 months for her to say actually no sorry still not enough. feel like everyones now looking at me thinking i must be a failure my family especially as ive put them through so much financially and stress wise! my supervisors told me to be hopeful, that said, as aforementioned i cant actually change what i did, the theory was there, also a lot of the justifications were drawn from the lit reviews, which is why im feeling despondant because if its already there i dont know how i can change it! i dont want to appear rude and say but look ive written it all there in black and white.

Hi Scaredgirl,

As a resubmission veteran I would suggest that you take a break from your PhD and look at it again in a month. I was given 12 months to resubmit with another viva and due to work commitments (I should mention I'm a part-timer and have a full-time job) I was forced to take 2 months away from the PhD. I didn't look at it or think about it and it really gave me some perspective. When I had the first viva I was upset, felt like a failure and couldn't face spending another 12 months on it. But after taking the break I looked at my thesis and could see what the problems were and to be honest, although my examiners have been a bit pedantic (IMHO), overall they didn't ask me to do anything that I thought was unreasonable.

After the second viva I was given a pass with minor corrections so it's worked out okay.

Take a break and it will make you feel better.

:-)

Hey there! I'm only in second year now, but a friend of mine had a re-submit on his PhD last year. We were all astounded- supervisors included- everyone thought he would be fine and none of us had ever heard of anyone in the department having a re-submit. He was devastated. But he was given a year to re-submit, and just a few weeks ago he found out he had passed. Originally they said he would have to have another viva, but he didn't have one in the end- I'm not quite sure how that decision came about. But for sure, it can be done, so I would absolutely give it a shot- it would be awful to not get it after all this work and you have nothing to lose by trying. However, it's also important to look after yourself whilst you are pregnant, so make sure you take care of yourself too. Best, KB

When you get your PhD no one ever asks if you got major/minor/resubmission etc type corrections. I understand why u r despondent as tjats exactly how i would be myself. Hugs x

Hi there,
Congrats on the baby.
I'll give you a very brief run-down of my situation as it may help....

I too was fairly confident of a pass with minor amendments, had passed all the annual progress reviews etc without any difficulties. I went into the viva room fairly confident to have my thesis ripped apart by the external examiner. After a very long few hours she told me that they would give me the opportunity to resubmit but then said she'd wanted to fail me outright.

I am a mature student and, although funded, my thesis has cost a lot of time and ££. My family and friends had high expectations of me. I can honestly say that after that viva I was utterly distraught, hurt, angry and so humiliated. I remained like this for some time (and still haven't shaken all of those feelings off). I too seriously considered walking away (and still do on the bad days), but here I am heading for resubmission, with a second viva.

I was given the 12 months and have then applied for, and been granted a further two six month extensions. There was no problem getting extensions, I had never had them during the main four years and the dean of postgrad studies was very supportive. One was on the grounds of some mental health issues I was having and one was simply on the grounds that a) I was too upset to work on the thesis and b) simply had too many other things going on in my work and home life. So, the '12 months' is not necessarily all you will have.

I would echo what Sarah has suggested (she's a wise woman), take some time away from it initially and then you'll be better placed to make a decision.

I am well aware that I could still 'fail', in fact at times I think I probably will. I take the imposition of the second viva in my case to be a bad sign and absolutely dread being back in that room with that 'f***ing b**ch' (excuse the language). But, although I loathe and despise my thesis and see absolutely no relevance in it anymore, I feel for me that it would be a bit more bonkers to pull out now than continue.

The people who love and respect you will continue to do so whether you have a phd or not, you're not a failure - after all you've put yourself through one of the hardest periods of study anyone will ever do, that takes guts. Hang in there and don't make any decisions just yet.

The main problem i have is im going to lose my job, which is why im tempted to chuck it all in. i dont have 12 months. im lucky if i have 3 or 4 before my initial contract will be terminated because i dont have a PhD as it was on the condition that it was all done and dusted. Which means no maternity leave for me. I also feel that i defended it to the best of my ability and there isnt really much more i can do.

Hi Scaredgirl,

Are you really sure you're going to lose your job? Have you spoken to your employers? I have a friend who is an academic whose contract depended upon completion of his PhD. He didn't finish in the time scale the university had indicated on his contract but they gave him another 12 months to submit. He didn't submit in the time but even then the university didn't terminate his contract. He found another job in the end and still hasn't submitted 2 years later.

You're one step on from my friend because you've already submitted so I'm wondering whether you've satisfied the requirements of your contract? I can understand that you're contract would be in jeopardy if you'd failed but you haven't. I think you really need to speak to your employers and it may not be as bad as you think.