Dear all,
I am a 30 year old female PhD student, and I will graduate next year. My husband and I plan to have two children in the next 4-5 years. And I would like to take a leave for a year for each kid, which accumulates to 2 years.(For medical reasons, I don’t want to wait till late 30s to have children.)
My question is should I apply for academia? Is my plan compatible with academia? Can I have two kids before getting tenure, and taking one year off for each kid? In addition, I don't want a high stress job. I prefer something more like 9-5, and I can return to my family by the end of the day, with not much overtime. Is this realistic? I kind of think no, just want to see what people think here.

I am in science, so I can try go into industry. Thanks so much in advance for any advice you may give me!! And good luck to your PhDs.

PhD takes about 4 years including writing up: thus assuming your doing a full-time PhD in the UK

- You'll have 2 children in the next 4-5 years
- You'll take 2 years leave in total
- That means about 6 years, from the day you start, to complete your PhD
- A further 3-6 years postdoctoral work before academic tenure becomes a viable option = 9 - 12 years to obtain tenure from when you start your PhD
- Academic work in the sciences is inherently stressful - definately will never be a 9 - 5 job - more like a lifestyle
- Will your family be able to deal with the changes that occur in you personally due to the effect of an intense workload, that you often have to take home with you?

- If you intend going into industry after the PhD, then 9 - 5 is entirely possible as this is an industrial pathway and not really an academic (tenured) pathway.


Alternatively, you could look at a part-time PhD?

I think Celina meant that she will complete her PhD next year?

You said you are in science, would that be lab-based (surrounded by chemicals and foreign entities)? If so, you need to remember that you wont be able to go into the lab as soon as you know you are preggers. That could piss off a lot of people. It's also a lot harder to do lab work part time etc.

Personally I think you always run the risk of having to work longer hours and your contract will expect you to without complaint.

Science can be 9-5 but not always. Maybe you should consider a career change that would fit in with your family life, I know a lot of women who have had to this (hence why less women in science).

In an ideal world it would all be fine. In reality most areas of academia are highly competitive and require huge amounts of time, insecurity and need long hours. As a post doc, almost all of my peers are child free, work late and are hugely ambitious.

Sure, you don't have to work this way, but bear in mind you will be up against us when going for jobs and lecturers posts in the future. Can you uproot your entire family to the other end of the country because that fellowship has opened up at a distant university? I see this is the reality for most of us.

I know a few women in science with kids and they've all done things differently.

On has two kids and a very high-powered academic job. I don't think she took much maternity leave but she's very assertive about the rights of women and mothers - I think she's as involved with her kids as she can be but is definitley not 9-5. Don't know her well though.

One old friend (tenured, good uni) has two kids and has negotiated unpaid leve for all the school holidays. He husband is also tenured in science. They also have a part-time nanny. I think she has a very good arrangement but I think she was already tenured when the youngest started school. She is very 9-5 and says you just have to be really foccussed and efficient when you are at work - more than other colleagues. She advised me to get funding for a postdoc first then negotiate flexible terms.

Another friend who was head of a lab in industry (medical type research) went to 3 days/week after the first child but gave up her job after the second. Childcare for 2 children is very expensive and she didn't feel it was worth it - she would have been working just to keep her career going and I don't think she was that in love with her job. She could have continued 3 days/week though. She took one year maternity leave both times.

I have a 3 yr-old I'm hoping to do a postdoc 3 days/week (not lab based). The problem with 2 kids is the cost of childcare - you really need both of you to have good jobs wo make that financially viable otherwise you will have very little pay until they go to school - and you will still need some wrap-around care then.

Another good friend is a tenured lecturer in a medical field - 3 days/week. She has just had her third child (eldest is 3). She took one year leave the first time then 6 months maternity for the other two (but could have taken 1 year).

When you say take a year off - will your partner be OK suporting you (this is what we did - I took 2 years out after my daughter was born although I only planned to take one). It's actualy easier to get tenure first, if time allows, as you are in a stronger negotiating position but you are perhaps not quite young enough to risk that. I recently went to a talk about how to negotiate flexible working for parents - you have the right to request fleixible hours, part-time, term-only etc - but your employer is not obliged to agree. You might want to consult your admin/personel office at your uni for advice about this. Or else try and network e.g. through 'women in science' with science-mums.

The big problem is the 'no-stress 9-5'. I think it can be done but it's partly luck, depending on the culture of the dept you find yourself in, and the exact nature of the work you do. Some projects are more routine in day-to-day nature while others are more pressured. If you prefer academia maybe you could try it and switch later maybe? Industry is definitley more accommodating.

Badhaircut makes an iprotant point about moving for postdoc contracts. We absolutely cannot move in order for me to do a postdoc - we depend on my husband's permanent job and my daughter is settled here and registering for school. We dont' want to move her around too much anyway. This is a problem but not totally insurmountable. You just have to really ingratiate yourself at your local institution(s) ;-)

That's what maternity leave is for. It's against the law to discriminate against people who need time off to have children.

I dont think that Celina is worried about discrimination. Two years out is a lot of time to miss, and depending on your area within science, a lot can happen in two years. Also, would there be students working on the project with you who would be looking to the post doc for guidance.....that has generally been the case in our department....while PIs have the knowledge, it is the post docs who have the practical skills. Also you may want to check, but in our uni i dont think maternity leave applies to post docs....only to permanent staff (probably due to the nature of short term contracts). Again, not knowing your specific area it is hard to comment on the 9 - 5 schedule, but from my own experience thats not how it works. If you want tenure you need to publish, if you need to publish you have to put in the hours in the lab as you will be competing with people who can work longer hours, weekends etc. I guess it depends on your schedule of work now......if you do 9 - 5 now, you might be able to sustain that, I doubt you could decrease the hours and hope to get tenure...

My reply is purely based on my personal circumstances and I am not in science! I "planned" on having my second child before starting a PhD - unfortunately planning is not enough - sometimes these things don't work out. If having two kids is your priority then I wouldn't postpone any longer than strictly necessary. The details you can work out later!

Hey all,

Thanks a lot for your thoughtful replies! I know most plans do not work out, and all I can do is to do our best, and hope for the best. I think I will try to apply within both academia and industry, and see what turns out. Good luck to you on your studies and/or future job searches!