I think people just don't understand... I've endured years of 'jokey' remarks about finishing. The in-laws-to-be have offered me money to 'motivate' me to finish my thesis (£50 if I finish in month X, £25 the month after...). People ask when I'll finish my 'essay'...

I thought when I got my post-doc it'd be different. It's not. My mother-in-law-to-be has just told me that at least it will "look nice on the CV" before asking why I'm not planning children yet. At least there's a 4 hour car drive between us....

lol MTB-girl! What the hell did your future mother in law mean by that comment?! Ah the power of 'in laws' (present and future). They can provoke extreme anger with just a single comment. And the worst thing is if you moan about it to your fiance he gets all defensive of them.eg. Oh they didn't mean it like that...

As an aside, I am also a MTB_girl (assuming by MTB you mean getting extremely muddy whilst on a bike). Just thought I'd let you know seems we are few and far between!

sorry for taking this off-topic, but i couldn't resist.

o.stoll, thanks for your reply. it seems not extremely clear to me as you refer to two different things that seem to make a job "proper", which could both be debated (not studying, but working; and getting a significant wage).

you do however state that this is of course subject to personal opinion.

it seems to me, that if the definition of a "proper job" is subject to personal opinion, then obviously the question if a PhD is a proper job or not, is equally subject to personal opinion, as it is subject to the definition of a proper job.

therefore, your first statement that a "PhD is not a proper job, whatever you call it" seems a bit too sweeping to fit your agreement that the definition of a proper job is subject to personal opinion.

Hi Shani

thanks for your response.

Actually quite interesting what you wrote. So you're basically saying that I cannot say something like "PhD is not a proper job" if it is subject to personal opinion? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. Rather, from the perspective of my personal opinion, the statement is true. If someone else has a different opinion, then it is false, from the other person's personal opinion perspective. As a result, making a statement like:"a PhD is not a proper job" is not sweeping at all; as long as we are clear about the fact that it must be seen in the context of the person who said it (which is of course not generalisable).

Why do academics always have to be so nit-picking?? (by the way, that IS a sweeping statement

I don't know if I should laugh or cry, so I'll opt for joking.
I love the comment:
In my case I wish I hadn't keep telling people my 'deadlines'... it was Christmas, then definately February, then Easter, then end of July.
That's exactly what I said.
I've still not submitted......
I'm doing a "proper" job working on reception for a week for lowish wages. It's wierd to dress smartly and have someone worry you won't be able to cope with the post or work things out, but be in awe of a PhD.

robber - yeah, that's what it stands for. Although I haven't been near my bike in months (as the thesis deadline fast approaches). I seem to remember a pretty little hardtail languishing at the back of my shed... MTB_boy has promised me a full-sus when I submit! Now, THAT is motivation! Do you manage to get out much?

Robber, MTB_Girl, count me in too! I love my bike

To be honest the PhD is harder than any other "proper job" I have ever done in my live and I think it is something quite unique to this island that you are a student during your PhD. Most other places I know you are research assistant or fellow and it is considered a proper job - which makes the answer to "when do you finish" much easier as nobody asks as you are doing a "job". The downside is of course that it can happily take you 7 years - nothing is perfect!