Sorry, not a cheery thread! I'm in my 4th year, have to hand in by the end of September. Looking at what I have to do, and what's done, I just can't see how it's possible. Supervisors know I think this, but we seem to be just cruising along as if everything's OK. (I can't go past 4 years: those days are over now - it's hand in or goodbye.)

I'm so stressed I can't tell whether I'm even able to judge correctly. I have no idea if I should be asking anyone for help - ultimately it's down to me to write the thing, what help could I get? It's not been for lack of work either: it's just that along the way I've managed to do pretty much everything that the "how-to" books say not to: spread out too widely, changed direction, didn't do something my supervisors really know anything about (or often that I knew anything about!). The result is where I am now, and it's looking like I can't do it.

It's very hard to believe four years of work (five with the MA before) could just crash, but I guess it's entirely possible - thwump, end of career before it started. Some part of my brain is trying to prepare me for that, but I'm also trying to carry on fighting.

Just wondering if anyone else has any experiences to share / any advice? I'm imagining thinking you're staring failure in the face is pretty normal for PhD students. But of course, it could be because it's true!

Apologies for the whingeing...

My hubs was like this about 6 months ago, until I whipped him into shape and essentially bullied him through the process haha! he's just passed his viva - something both of us felt was impossible a while back (me because of his lack of effort/motivation and him because he thought it was all awful etc.).

I'd suggest telling us where you're at on each chapter or section of work, how much is left to do specifically? (obviously while retaining your anonymity)

Thanks for the reply. I have an amazing partner who's been through the PhD wringer before me: would already have given up otherwise. She's my best supervisor by a long way! It's very good hearing stories exactly like yours: seemed impossible, wasn't. You must have both been pretty spectacularly relieved afterwards.

I've got 40,000 words, some coherent, some very notey. For the kind of thesis I'm doing, I could get away with maybe 60,000, if it ticks all the boxes. Not sure it will. A large chunk of it is coding a model: this is the hard part. It isn't where it should be by now, and I don't have time for getting it there, so I'm trying to write up how it is now. Except then, older words were written based on it being further along! So I'm swinging between trying to hammer the code more or just writing and hoping for the best. The model part not being finished is mostly what tells me I'm kinda stuffed - that and me feeling that I haven't fully understood what I've tried to do (bad, bad over-reach on my part - should have narrowed down waaay earlier.)

If it were a `proper' lab-based PhD and experiments hadn't worked, I would still have to write it up (something my partner pointed out), so that's how I'm trying to treat it. Ultimately I guess there's no way to know if it's impossible other than to carry on and try to get it done...

I think you need to sit down and write out a list of exactly what needs to be done in which area/chapter. It sounds like you're seeing it as a massive mountain to climb, rather than a series of small hills. Once you break it down into smaller sections it will be easier to see where work needs to be done and what is the priority. If it helps, I've just spent 2 weeks getting my 45000 of random literature down to a proper chapter - i've also had to update and change the direction of my argument, but it is doable!

are you research council or university funded?

ESRC - though of course no money for the past year...

ah ha, you're in exactly the same position as me! I've spent the last week writing my lit review. I'm now spending the next 3 weeks doing 1 chapter per week and getting the whole thing finished (ha!) well a draft finished anyway, that my sup will rip apart and make me re-work for months.

If you could get the model coding sorted then the writing up probably won't be that bad. I'm sure as well, you could contact the ESRC and ask for an extension - I'm not sure how these things work? I don't even know what happens if I don't submit by sep - maybe they'd just cut my head off or something??

I'm coming to the end of forth year and swing between thinking this is doable to "oh my god I'm gonna fail!!"

If I can draft a chapter a week I'll be ok..... but U also have to mark 42 undergraduate essays by next weds too. And I don't have a good work ethic sometimes!

Don't know if this helps. My plan is to keep plodding on and hope I have something coherent to hand in at the end of September.

Send it to me, if you can't cope. Free advice and free help. Honest. Don't get upset. Will look at your stuff dispassionately, for nowt, if I have the time.

Catalinbond: "My plan is to keep plodding on and hope I have something coherent to hand in at the end of September. "

Yes, it's the only real plan that's gonna work, isn't it? Carry on and hope! Good luck.

Beajay: cheers for the offer, but I'll pass. It's not the writing I'm struggling with, it's the getting-model-finished and actually still trying to understand some of the underlying economics! Woohoo. But thank you.

Sneaks: hope they don't cut your head off. It's a real comfort anyway to come here and find it isn't just me! So - you and your husband were doing PhDs at the same time?? Wow. That's impressive, getting through that! I'm amazed reading some of the stories here of how people have got PhDs.

yeah, he actually built his own mathematical model too (I think! haha!) it was a bit over my head :$ he started a year before me, but then went into full time work for the last 2 years, so got it done in 4 and a half years. I obviously need to get it in before 4, so the ESRC don't cut my head off.

Are you procrastinating at all though - I mean how long will the model take if you really concentrate on it without any distractions? do you need more guidance from a supervisor?

"Are you procrastinating at all though - I mean how long will the model take if you really concentrate on it without any distractions? do you need more guidance from a supervisor?"

I'm being pulled different ways: supervisors want me to just write up - I think I need to actually get the model, you know, producing some results! Otherwise what do I have to write up? So I'm not sure whether to trust myself on that. At the end of the day, we're responsible for our PhDs and have to make our own choices, and from the feedback I've got, I don't have great confidence my supervisors know enough about what I'm doing to make correct judgements. Ultimately, again, my fault for not finding people who know about the stuff I've done.

Full time work AND PhD?? Wow. Again: I'm humbled. That's pretty impressive. We managed to make a plan that's allowed me to carry on with the PhD full-time. I should stop whingeing!

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now, to be fair, he did sod all for most of the time he was working and I forced him to sit down and finish it off (he'd done 90% of it before he started working). < just trying to point out that although it was hard, it wasn't like some massive after-work slog every night of the week for 2 years.

My sup has this habit of saying "you need to focus on writing X" and then when I meet her again, she says "why were you writing X, you should have been writing Y!" so now I've got to the point where actually, I just need to do what I need to do, and I igonore her advice about scheduling. I suggest you do the same - get the model done if that's what you need to be focusing on. Or at that stage you could block out 9-5 on model development and 5-8pm writing. Its crappy, but it will only be a few months of it and then its done.

Good advice, thanks. I'm getting on with coding right now! Thanks again for the chat - feel a lot better for venting a bit and hearing other stories.