Hey guys. I think I have been enjoying my PhD rather naively. I am now halfway through (time-wise) and have a couple of papers published and some nice data, a couple of conferences coming up blah blah. I've been working pretty hard (around 10 hours per day plus time at most weekends), so there was me thinking I was on top of it all. And then my sup asked me to do a PhD plan for the next 18 months. On trying to fit in the rest of my data collection, another 4 papers to be published that my sup is insisting upon before submission of my thesis, preparation of the thesis, several applications to be written for post-doc funding, and all the usual conference stuff, teaching, supervising MSc students etc, I have come to the conclusion that actually I am aiming for the impossible. I will have to give up all my hobbies, my social life, sleep for less than 3 hours per night, and spend the next 18 months chained to my desk (except for when I'm testing). My supervisor even offered to chain me to my desk which was very generous of her. Is everyone else feeling like this too? I have that sinking feeling.... Best, KB

Welcome to the world of PhD! although have to say write up "another 4 papers" christ, I'm only publishing about 3 from my whole thesis!

Bloody hell kb, 6 papers? That's amazing, at the moment I think I might just have one :-(

If it's really not doable then you have to be honest (bear in mind that everything will usually take more time than you've budgeted anyway). I like to use the magic phrase "If I'm to submit on time..." because most schools want to keep students to time to safeguard future funding.

Hey KB,

Whilst not planning (or having the intellectual capacity :-() to publish so many papers, I know what you mean about the sinking feeling. I've been experiencing a similiar thing recently (as documented on these boards) and I too have just hit mid-point. My sup said for everybody there comes a point when you realise fully what is expected of what/ what you want to achieve and the future can look bleak. My second supervisor however played an invisible violin when I was explaining that I'm struggling to find the time to write a journal article at the moment, and said 'we did warn you your PhD would be on top of, not in place of, all these other things'

No advice here, but sympathies.

Argh that's harsh Keenbean. If anything, you need to ensure you get enough sleep every night so you are fit to face whatever is thrown at you.

Keep_calm, I would feel soo patronised and frustrated if my supervisor played an invisible violin at me! I wouldn't be surprised if they did at the moment to be honest though!

Hi KB

No, this doesn't sound doable. A 3 year PhD is possible if that's all you're doing, but add in all the extra and well, of course the time is going to blow out. Add on another 6 months I reckon. Most students don't complete on time, do don't worry too much about it. I know it can be disappointing, and it just seems to go on forever, but these are the realitites. Otherwise, commit yourself to only doing the PhD, and publish after. I think your sups are also expecting too much of you, if they think you can do all this in 3 years.

I got very good at saying no in my PhD. Yes my situation is different, because I'm long-term ill (can't even work part-time), so working in academia in future isn't an option. But if I felt something was too much I'd say "No!" very very firmly. I got the impression my supervisor wasn't used to hearing that! But we have a good relationship, and I submitted in a pretty good time scale.

Hi Keenbean, others,

seems a bit over the top, doesn't it? I mean you have published already a few papers and must do another 4? I do not think there are many PhDers would manage that, I wouldn't.

Like Bilbo is indicating probably the key skill is to say: No! Personally I find that very difficult too, as it seems that many supervisors find it hard to deal with people who say "no". Also as we are in a very vulnerable position.

Do you think you can set specific goals and negotiate about these?

Thanks guys! I'm glad it's not just me that thinks this is impossible! Truth is, I'm rubbish at saying no. The more that gets asked of me, the harder and longer I work, and in the end I always get everything done, so then more and more gets asked of me. A vicious circle in other words. I think I will have to accept that it's going to take at least an extra 6 months- nobody in my subject ever finishes in 3 years anyway. The thing is, I would love to do all of the things that my sup is suggesting, but there just aren't enough hours in the day. And to be honest I'm doing my best to keep in her good books so I can stay on for a post-doc hopefully...that's part of the reason I just keep doing everything she asks, but I think I need to grow a pair of balls! Last week was the first time I said 'no' to her (about the MSc project stuff) and it didn't go down too well, although she has since made an effort to reduce our involvement with that a bit. Part of me thinks I should just keep going and as we get nearer to the deadline she will realise that it's impossible- I have tried telling her I don't have time to do it all but she just smiles and then increases my workload with some other overly ambitious idea! Grrrrrrrr. Perhaps my June review will be the time to broach the issue again, when I will have a chairperson there who will hopefully be on my side! Cheers, KB

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I think I have the humanities equivalent of your supervisor! He always encouraged me to publish from an early stage and to get writing and do stuff. Very goal orientated. I doubted whether it was possible to do it, and at times I have gone insane and hidden it from him, but produced the goods. I think I have done well from this in general (even though I am tired now and find it a pain to complete) because I needed somebody to push me and give me things to aim for since he as a supervisor would have had a good idea of what was (or wasn't possible) to do in a certain time. I have gone over the 3 years, but most hand in at 3.5 - 4 years and I am prob. going to be 3.7 years. I used to get a real buzz from juggling teaching, thesis, publications, conference papers - I think my supervisor helped me to make the most of my time, by making some of the decisions as to how I spent it for me - if you see what I mean...

I am not sure if you have seen the Devil Wears Prada? But I think I would thrive under Amanda Priestley. ;-)

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hi Keenbean
I think this is a bit mad what your supervisor is expecting of you, and I would definitely learn to say no asap..most of the postdocs I've spoken to have said that it's more stressful than a PhD and much more work, so just imagine how much your sup would expect you to do if you did get a postdoc with her at the end...I've had to tell my supervisors no in the past, and it's clear some of them didn't like it one little bit, but I've gained respect for being able to stand up for myself.  Obviously however, if you do want to do it all and are ok with putting in all the time required then fair enough, but personally I'd rather do 5 things well than 10 things half as good...but maybe that's just me! :-)

Good grief!!! We're at the same point KB and I now feel totally inadequate! I haven't published one single paper, and haven't even attempted to. Haven't been to a conference, and don't intend to for the foreseeable. Don't teach although I wanted to and was offered a GTA position this year my sup was the opposite, put his foot down and said absolutely not - ok, so I'm working p/t on his research project as an RA for 10 hours a week, but if I go over that 10 hours of 'outside' stuff by even an hour my line manager is 'reminded' by the grad director for the dept that its not acceptable and I have to be focussing on my thesis! Because I was doing the RA work I'm not allowed to teach - again, the 10 hour rule, it may be that I can teach next year, but as my contract looks to be renewed again til Nov its unlikely. I work more like 7 or 8 hours a day, if that - the sup insists that I don't over do it - I did and have been ill for a couple of weeks. Its not that he doesn't encourage me, far from it - top sup - but he is quite insistent that I work steadily and don't over do it or the quality will suffer. Your work load just sounds terrifying and really totally unsustainable if you want to get out of this sane. In the words of the Grange Hill kids - 'Just say NO!' lol lol (showing my age). I think they do respect it if you give clear and concise reasons.

Dear all,

I'm not sure my post is right here. So I do apologise if it is not right. But I have an issue with my supervisor. My supervisor is quite slack. He spends very limited time with me. I am very alone in my journey. Sometimes, I got stuck and asked for helps but he did not have time. He asked one of his assistants to work with me. But I don't like it as the assistant does not really take responsibility to work with me. The assistant does not really get involved in my project and forgot my topic all the times we met. Sometimes, my supervisor suddenly remembers me, he asked me to send a piece of writing to him. He read and gave me some comments. These comments are more dealing with grammar rather than ideas.

Now, the deadline to submit my thesis getting close. He is also worried that I cannot finish in time. He pushed me very hard by asking me to send a page writing everyday. For the first week, he really spent his time on my writing. But then, everything seems go back. He does not give me any more comments.

I do not know who I should talk to as my supervisor is the boss of all other people in this school. Just trying myself to finish and go home.

:((. Thanks for giving me a chance to talk., Any advice for me is greatly appreciated.

Hey again! Thanks guys, it's good to know that people agree with me that this is all a bit mad...now I just have to learn to say no! I do actually really like and really respect my supervisor, and when she has all these expectations of me I tell myself that at least she has faith in me, but clearly too much! But whenever I say anything about needing to cut back on what I'm doing, she just ignores me and then increases my workload even more. I honestly think she just doesn't realise how hard she's pushing or how much I am feeling the pressure, but I don't want to have to drive myself to a nervous breakdown before she realises! There are several postdocs on our team, and whilst they are busy and clearly work hard, they tend to work 9-5 and have their weekends off etc- they certainly put in less time than I do. I think because I'm in my 20s with few other commitments (i.e. not married, no kids etc) she thinks I have 20 hours a day to put into my PhD! I suppose the question for me really is whether I want to finish on time and tell her I'm not doing everything she asks of me, or whether I just it all and accept the fact that I will be well over the three year mark. I think another discussion about this at my June review might be timely....thanks guys! Best, KB