Isnt the proposal at the moment to just combine two databases from two govenment departments, not collect a whole load of new data? ID cards will probably not contain anymore info than that found in your wallet (which will be on file at a number of govenmnet agencies, eg inland revenue). So, where is the new data the govenment plans to get?

The new database will combine existing data with all data from the NHS, additionally plans are in place to collect DNA samples of all citizen in the near future (currently just offenders).

Addtionally, plans are in place to collect data from your car number plate. New number plates will contain electronic chips which interact with electronic devices under bridges etc. This information will be used by insurance companies to determine the premium price you got to pay, of course the police will have access to this data to determine where you were at a certain point in time. This is just the first step. Total control will become very easy.

Addtionally, the government has the right to access all the data the companies collect. TESCO will introduce a new system very soon which will allow you to check out without taking the products out of your shopping cart-the packaging contains electronic chips and the amount to pay will be deduced automatically from your credit/debit/club card. What sounds very convenient indeed will result in total control. The government will always know what you buy, where you were, your health history, your DNA. But things will even become worse as these are just the first steps. Technological possiblities are endless.

Nobody seems to notice/care. We are sliding in a new era, a scary one if you ask me. Personal freedom will be gone with the wind.

so erm...who is addicted to facebook?!

I dont disagree with what you are saying. It just that I still dont see what the govenment or comapnies will do with this. So what if tesco knows what you buy? Or indeed the govenmnet. What will they do with it thats bad? They will know everything about you. Then what?

Im not saying I agree with it all, im just interested in hearing other points of view on it.

Anyway, I was thinking about the new scheme for charging people per mile (instead of fuel duty apparently). That is pretty much the same thing. The govenment keeping an eye on where you go etc.

Hmm, slightly hijacked this thread. Yes, I do use facebook. Addicted, no. I only go on when I remember (usually when I get an email saying someone has writern on my wall, which is pretty rare (I have so few friends ).

I think a democratic nation/state/government should not try to collect data/spy on its people. That's what usually dictators do. The whole idea of democracy is to trust people.

To give you an example: soon it will be possible to monitor speeding cars (the device communicates that information to the police automatically). In the future the police will be able to remote slow down speeding cars automatically, together with a fine. Rules are important but citizen should be trusted

whilst the majority of us can be trusted, I'm with richmond on this one - maybe playing devil's advocate a little, but not too worried about sharing my lifestyle habits (makes me feel quite important actually!). It sounds a bit scary to US, but if it's the norm one day then so be it. The police slowing a speeding car may prevent a child from being run over. Change is scary - imagine just how freaked out a person who died only 100 years ago would be if they could see how we live today.

Unfortunately, the point is not whether or not you have anything to hide. It is in fact the precedent that is set.

Take an analogy - This government is basically acting like that fraky ex-girl/boyfriend who tries to follow you around all day and challenges you to justify each of your acions!

But back to more serious talk, the biggest problems are its compulsarity and the hazy nature of its policy. Other countries have ID cards, but not with the proposed level of centralised, screened information. This is a very socially dangerous proposal, without concerning ourselves with the agenda behind it (which the government have yet to reveal - the crime/immigration/terrorists smokescreens have been admitted as unfeasible by ministers themselves). The potential for abuse is quite clear. If we have an all-seeing surveillance network running (however long it takes for this to occur, but it appears the aims of our government), it only takes one 'dodgy' government to truely destroy what semblance of a democracy we have left.

I'd love it if this were some kind of bonkers conspiracy theory, but unfortunately conspiracy theories are built on coincidences and half-truths. Whatever the motive, this 'surveillance' scheme is definitely underway. It is quintessentially anti-democratic and anti-libertarian.

Now, where's my telescreen?

Insomniac, I really don't think historical relativism is relevant here.

For example, Stalin's gulag was a 'cultural norm' for a while in Russia. Would you have been passive enough to say 'so be it' to that?

I think there are far to many of you with too much time on your hands. I suggest you stop getting so paranoid about what the government is doing with your details and start enjoying life. Until someone demands that I perform actions, I feel free do do as I please as long as I do not break any rule. Ok, some people will know where I shop. Who gives a damn! And as for Otto's claim with chips under bridges etc, dude it is not going to happen in our lifetime, if ever, so chill out.

Apologies if the tone of this message is somewhat agressive. It wasnt meant :)

good question SuperHam - and the answer is 'How can I know?' When I have sat and listened to older members of my family recount their incredible life stories, I understand exactly what the males in my family were fighting for: freedom. I remember my great grandad (who fought in both world wars) and my grandfathers (one a partisan) and grandmothers (removed from their homes and ferried from Poland to Siberia, Kazakhstan, Africa...) and I remember all my own visits to Communist Poland - maybe under different circumstances I would resist and not be as 'passive'. My life here is good.

Bazzab - who is more paranoid - a government obsessed with watching our every move, or concerned individuals who see this as potentially dangerous? This isn't David Icke stuff, for god's sake.