While Otto's claims might be extending it to a worst case scenario, there are certainly indications that, yes, it certainly can happen in our lifetime. For example, Westminster council are very busy fitting a large number of security cameras with tiny microphones, under the pretense of 'measuring urban noise' (!?).
I suggest you maybe do a bit of research - it's a lot more than 'someone knowing where you shop'. Like I said, I don't currently think it constructive to discuss motives atm - the physical evidence is more than enough.

As for too much time on my hands - I wish!! (Damn my research project!)

Insomniac - I think you miss my point. Although one can always interpet cultures and events relatively in terms 'good' or 'bad' socially, there are limits to that intellectual practise.

All our lives here are good - I just think we should intend on keeping it that way.

Your points are well made SuperHam - and I'm sorry for simplifying the issue. You are obviously on the ball. Perhaps there are one or two ostrich genes somewhere in my make-up.

Although I certainly tend to exaggeration, the points I made are all valid and based on facts: Bazzab says: "And as for Otto's claim with chips under bridges etc, dude it is not going to happen in our lifetime, if ever, so chill out."

Well, unless you die in the next five years or so, these things will certainly happen in your lifetime.

I can summarise it in simple words: What the government is currently proposing and trying to implement will one day go into history as a period of transition. Away from democracy as we knew it toward a new era of total control. Hate it or love it, it will happen.

Hello to Superham our "new" member, welcome to the forum.

Listen to Superham's words. One day, you might remember them and think "If only I would have listened back then.".

Like the rainforest destruction, the process of total control is irreversible...let's hope the best.

Hmm, I doubt that the govenment has either the wish or the means to monitor every move. After all, only a large dedicated team (I suppose the police) would be sitting at it watching it all on tv.

I still dont see this as a move away from democracy. In itself it is not. All it is doing (as far as I can tell) is allowing the govenment to enforce laws that are already in place. What is so wrong with that?

After all, a democracy is surely to a certain extent an illusion. We are not free to do as we please. Really we are all penned in by laws, that in actual fact already dictate much of what we can do in our lives. We have an illusion of freedom, but in general we are not willing to allow anarchy to be present in exchange for complete and total freedom. I think that provided you can do more or less what you want to do, and 'feel' like you have control over your life then you will be happy and 'free'

Richmond, currently, total control would be an illusion. But with technological progress, it will become increasingly easy to control human beings. The United Kingdom is one of the oldest democracies in the world. Therefore, I am very shocked that this country takes now the most drastic steps to abandon democracy - and that the public welcomes these changes.

The definition of democracy is wide, of course, so we should not go down that route and debate its definition, but focus on the tangible measures which are currently being taken in this country to control citizen. I think it's a dangerous development and I wish my girlfriend or more people would at least recognise the problem.

Superham: ref your comment "Bazzab - who is more paranoid - a government obsessed with watching our every move, or concerned individuals who see this as potentially dangerous?". I would say the individuals! The term 'obsessed' is far removed from reality. Do you actually think that any government sector have the resources to watch/track etc all of our movements? It is not feasable. If they did have that power, then terrorism and crime would be under control. (Before you say that this is the direction we are heading, think of the measures that need to be in place to have complete control- think long and hard!).

You also ask me to do some research. What the hell for? So I can come up with trivial facts like the rest of you who support conspiracy! Hence I said you should relax and enjoy life, surely you have enough research to do!

'...and that the public welcomes these changes'.

There you go with those sweeping statements again Otto. Yes to some extent I agree with you, BUT how do you know the public 'welcomes these changes'? Have you done an in depth study, or can you refer me to such a study to back up such a claim? I would personally suggest that the heated ID card debate goes some way to disproving your claim. Notwithstanding this, I would caution you from generalising from your own limited experiences, or limited discussions on here.

Otto, ref: "Well, unless you die in the next five years or so, these things will certainly happen in your lifetime." 5 years!!!? I doubt it very much. Think of the logistics involved and you will realise that your calculations, if they were to ever come to fruition, are exaggerated.

Golfpro, better a sweeping statement at the right time than presentation of a backed up study once it's too late. Yes, I don't know if the public explicitly welcomes these changes, but they don't seem to affront them, otherwise I would read about it daily in the press (not just about ID cards), which I don't. In fact, I only read about the changes in British society through technological control in other countries (i.e. I read Spanish, German and Finnish Newspapers online and they all seem to back up my observations). Let's be honest, backed up or not, not many people care about this topic.

Bazzab. The scenario I described with chips under bridges etc. and electronic devices in your car are not science-fiction. They are currently being implemented and if you get a new number plate in about two years time you may or may not notice the changes (if they tell you about it).

Yes, we should work on our PhDs instead of debatting all this, but like so often in history, we are in a period of change and the implications of these changes for society will be far-reaching. Is it not better to discuss these issues in a forum like here instead of being ignorant?

But I still fail to see how they will have loads of control over us. So they know what we are up to. That doesnt mean they are controling us. The govenment already knows a lot about us. If it didnt it wouldnt be able to run (eg collect taxs). It can currently contol us as much as it likes (pass new law, employ more police to enforce it etc). I fail to see how having a centralised database changes any of this.

You can do what you like at the moment, within the rules of the law. Extra survalience only means that they catch more who dont. I dont see how this is any different from having a bobby on every corner (which a lot of people want, but to me sounds like a police state). Its all about getting a balance between freedom and saftey, security and allowing the govenment to run effiecently.