Hi all,

I'm due to submit my thesis in a few months, and would like to stay in academic research. I'm looking out for post doc jobs, but ideally I would like to have a grant to extend my PhD work. I know there are such grant/fellowships available and as they all require a more experienced PI(s) I was just wondering if anyone had experience of/advice on how to approach them and come up with a joint proposal??

I've been to many conferences but unfortunately have not met anyone in my area. I am aware of a few academics whose work I really like and would like to perhaps work with one day, but without actually having met them I am not sure what the etiquette is in approaching them? I could always email to say I find their work interesting and introduce myself but not sure how to go about bringing up the fact that I'm looking for a job and wondering about the possibility of working with them one day. I do have some vague ideas about further research from my own PhD work, but they aren't concrete enough, and I don't have any publications to show people my PhD work (my supervisor advised that I should submit the thesis before submitting to journals). And as I'm so busy writing up now I don't have much time to develop these ideas. So it's not as if I can email them a proposal and ask if they'd like to work with me. I don't even know how likely it is that I could get a grant, I know they are highly competitive (but so is the post doc job market). But obviously the starting point will be to actually identify someone that's prepared to work with me.

Any comments/advice appreciated! Many thanks in advance!

I'm not sure which country you're from or which field you're in, but my advice is based on scientific research in the UK, though it may be applicable in other fields as well.

What you are hoping to do is something every fresh PhD dreams to do. Ah, I've got a **PHD** godammit...... what else do I need? I can do anything now, right? :-) That's how we all feel. But hardly any of them actually get to do it. Just see the number of PhDs unable to find postdoc work currently!

Coming to the point, you have two options:
(1) to apply for one of those early career fellowships, where you are the PI
(2) to get an academic to apply for a grant based on your ideas, so he/she is the PI and your name is included as an assistant/associate.

Option (1) normally involves these steps: (i) identify the likely sources of funding [research councils etc], (ii) you then need a university department that would be happy to host you for that research, so you need to contact the academics there and try to convince them to support your application through a formal Letter of Support, (iii) draft out a detailed proposal and send it to the folks in that department who supported you, so that they are convinced and iron out the rough bits (iv) that department will then have to work detailed charts of all the financial cost of your research, which is required by the funding bodies (v) once all this is done, the application is submitted, most likely by that department (vi) they tell you about the outcome typically around 6 months after the application deadline [deadlines are normally in Sept-Nov] (viii) the starting date is usually about a year after the application deadline!! So think about it.

Pheww.... Not a simple task, is it? A lot of hard work! And even then, there is a ludicrous amount of competition for these fellowships. Something like 10-20 applicants per position.

Option (2) may sound easier and the funds are usually made available quicker than in option (1) [perhaps 6-8 months?], but the most difficult part is to try and convince the academic in question that your ideas are worth pursuing. If they submit a proposal and then it doesn't succeed, *they* get a negative credit and that makes it more difficult for them to win future grants. I think Research councils in the UK have introduced some rules like that recently. Quite ridiculous, but that's the sort of jungle it is currently. So think, why would a lecturer/reader/professor want to risk his/her own reputation for your sake? Unless they are absolutely impressed by your ideas.

IN ANY CASE, in both the options, the critical thing for success is your publication list. In scientific research, that is ALL they really want to look at. It creates a mad race of numbers (publication), I know, but that's how it is. You may be the most brilliant person in the world, you may be the next Einstein in the making, but that counts for nothing if you don't have a good publication list to prove your credentials.

I am not sure why your supervisor advised you to submit thesis before publishing papers. Is that a rule at your place? Usually they should encourage as many publications as possible. In UK, PhD students in science usually publish 3 papers during the course of their PhD. To win your own funding, more than 3 peer-reviewed papers are usually needed (to nudge past your rivals).

Harsh world, I'm afraid, my friend.

If you feel like it, do approach the academics you have in mind. There are no particular etiquettes, as long as you are articulate and polite. Mail them and explain nicely what is in your mind. A good academic is always happy to listen to new ideas (if he/she isn't like that, would you really want to work with them?). If you're lucky, some of them might invite you for an informal chat. From there, it's up to you to convince them.