Hello people :)

I have been offered a place at my chosen institution but am on the waiting list for funding. I cannot accept the offer, unless I manage to secure funding, obviously.

I'd welcome any info/advice on the following:

- Loans: I assume they have to come from a bank... How much should I expect to borrow? Can I actually borrow? I am an EU national, but have had an account with HSBC for three years now, and have no credit history of any kind.

- Working part-time: is that enough? How much should I work? Or is it a really bad idea to do that anyway?

I do not have anyone who could back me up for "real", although if it's a matter of the odd bill I cannot afford to pay I could expect some help from my parents/grand-parents (-small amounts and only for emergencies but hey...)

Thanks in advance for your comments :)

Could you work part-time and do your PhD part-time as well? Many institutions will not allow you to work during a full-time PhD whether you are funded or not (other than dept teaching which is generally not enough to support you at all). You should probably check that.

Thanks Smilodon. I will check that indeed - I was not aware of this. I cannot do the course part-time it seems, so if I am not allowed to work on the side, it simply is not going to work

Do you happen to know a bit about bank loans as well? I have looked on websites today (took me hours) and got little useful information.

Grrr, I watched "Goodfellas" yesterday and statred to dream I could be sponsored by some mob guy...

I would advise that if you don't get full or partial funding (i.e. from the uni or research council) don't do the PhD. I know this is harsh, but you're looking at saddling yourself with an awful lot of debt.

As a rough guess - a self-funded PhD would cost about £40,000. Fees x 3 years = £12k roughly, and £9k x 3 years for living expenses = approx £40k. In London, I'd up that to about £50,000 plus. This excludes expensive conferences etc. and reflects budget living.

It was reported in the Guardian recently that international students often leave with £200,000 of debt (???)

It's unlikely any bank, particularly with the current credit-crunch, is going to offer this type of money over 3 years. .

There is a Career Development Loan scheme - I forget who runs this, but I have no idea it would offer funding for three years.

Sorry not to be more positive

I would echo the sentiment about not self funding. In addition to the debt that could potentially be accrued on such an open ended time frame (which is very hard to repay on a post-doc salary) there are additional factors to take into consideration.

In my experience the self funders were the ones that were most likely to be taken advantage of because a) they had invested so much into their projects they couldn't simply "walk away" if someone tried to take advantage of them, and b)the funding bodies were quite strict about what they did/ plans/ timeframe so they were able to use this to assert their rights and argue their position more.

Similarly, in the post PhD market, the self funders in my field have tended to fare worse than the stipended ones.

I think the fact that you won a stipend at a competitive level is something future employers respect. As we all know lecturers are appointed on the basis of publication and grant acquisition, and the fact you were able to secure funding from day 1 of your career is an auspicious start (Unless you have no plans to stay in academia, then I am not sure of the relevance of the above).

I have become more aware of the "self funded" issue since starting my post doc and looking at tenured positions. When I learn more I will post about the positive and negative factors that influence ones long term career.

Hi! Many thanks for your (honest) answers.

The university is not in London, fortunately.

Miss Spacey, I think the 200.000£ you read about may make sense for those not coming from the UK/EU, as they pay about 8000£ per year for tuition fee here... I tried to figure out how much I needed, and thought about 40.000£ too - good to have someone confirm something along those lines.

BHC - hadn't thought self-funding could have such consequences... Do you reckon it makes a difference that my project is in Humanities though?

About the debt thing, I also thought that I could borrow less AND work part-time, if allowed.

I know most places prohibit you from workin if you are undertaking a PhD - I assume partly because you don't pay tax on your stippend and also your PhD is supposed to be your Job - but I personally doubt that if you are entirely self funded, they could stop you working part time.

Nadia, I'm self-funded and work part-time while doing my PhD full time. I'd definitely think long and hard about it: it's certainly possible (but only outside London I think) but you'll need either a bank loan or generous family to pay your fees. Are you able to talk to anyone in your department about job prospects after you graduate and weigh this against the costs of your PhD? What I've found is that I just don't have time to do the extra things required of me in my department that will look good on my cv, so I think this is likely to harm my chances of getting a job later.

I am not a humanities graduate so can't give you anything concrete, but as you will find out most of the world of academia is very much played out behind closed doors.

However, as I understand it the AHRC has a huge role to play in the humanities world in general, and that they fund most of the humanities PhDs in the UK. It seems logical that the AHRC are more likely to support their own students, be favourable with their grants etc. If you already are "in", in some capacity it makes future life a lot easier (especially in humanities which I understand is more cut throat than science).

Hi Nadia
As you're sensible enough to be planning to be outside London then (if you currently have no debts to pay back), you can realistically live on £700-£800 a month if you are careful. If you get a shared house with other PhD-ers then rent will be around £300 for a decent place in a good part of wherever you plan to go. Food £100 a month, bills another £100, and general living costs/books/paying towards conferences etc £200-300 a month. Then its just an issue of fees.
You won't really be able to do a PhD full-time and work enough to cover these costs.
Humanities isn't as cut-throat as it is often perceived. If you have a really good supervisor who can get you contacts (its all about who you know), then your job prospects will be a lot better regardless of funding.

Many thanks to all of you for your answers :)

It is good to know in particular that some people survive the PhD full-time/part-time job thing, in spite of the cost of this...

Now I am going to have quite a choice to make. Thing is, I want to do that PhD for pleasure/love of my topic. I am not dreaming to land a job in academia, as I am unsure that could really happen. (I mean, I think I'd give it a go still, but I'm French with a background in English Lit, and even if my topic is interdisciplinary, I can picture how interviewers could respond to that...).

Seems that the question I have to ask myself is whether I want to do the PhD enough to finish it with some sort of a debt , and whether I can borrow money from somewhere, or someone. Tough

nadia, i know lots of people who self-fund. it is possible, in london too. there are certainly disadvantages compared to funded people - it will just be extra hard to squeeze time in for those "extra" things you should be doing during the PhD for your job chances, such as publications, conferences, gaining teaching experience, etc. and you will have to live with financial insecurity looming over your head. the system kind of creates a two-tier society of academics.
about jobs as a french person in english lit - couldn't you get a job in France, or any other non-english-speaking country? or is that totally out of question?

Thanks Shani :)

The way I see it is, with a PhD in the UK, even without working in academia, you can still get a decent job, I reckon.

I could not get a job at all in France with a PhD only - because unemployment rates are quite high, it would make me overqualified for pretty much everything. However, if I did get a PhD wherever in the world, I could take one exam (the hardest there is in France actually, but nevermind!) to become a lecturer in France indeed (where my CV would look extremely good after studying in the UK).

But then my boyfriend would have to learn French... Though time for me to do a PhD leaves him plenty of time to work on it...

Hi Nadia, I'm entirely self funded (I never even considered any other way of doing it) and it is possible to work quite a lot of hours and do a PhD at the same time, though you have to be organised.

Also, upon being accepted, I deferred my PhD start date and saved for 18 months, putting away every penny I could to give myself a little extra. If you have no savings, it might be worth spending a year or two making as much money as you can and living as cheaply as possible, so that when you do come to do your PhD it's not such hard work financially.