Hi
Apologies if these questions have been asked before - I have had a skim through previous posts and haven't seen the answers to these questions....

I am a UK resident, 26 years old, I graduated in 2005 with a Masters degree in Automotive Engineering, went straight into work and have worked for the same company for the last 4 years - I now earn circa £27k before tax. I am also well positioned within my company with a secure job, but my company is very unlikely to let me study for a PhD. I do not particularly have a desire to work in academia but I have a very strong desire to learn and I have always wanted to ultimately get a PhD.

I think now I am approaching the break-even point where I will not lose too much money by studying for a PhD, and I think I will still be employable in industry if I complete my PhD by around 30-31 years old.

I understand I can expect from £13k up to £18k studying for a PhD, and that is without national insurance contributions, income tax or student loan repayments - is that correct? I am concerned that should I be unable to find a job on completing my PhD that my lack of NI payments will mean I am not entitled to Jobseeker's allowance, and I have read that my non-payment will also affect my state pension allowance. Does anyone have any further guidance on this?

I am also concerned about likely employability after completing a PhD - is a 3yr break from industry likely to adversely affect my employment chances, despite my current job experience and despite having a PhD? As a 30 year old I would be up against recent graduates but I would not expect to start as a graduate or on a graduate salary.

Apologies for the length of this post, and I appreciate most people on this forum will be currently studying for PhDs and so may not be able to comment on some of my concerns, but I would be very interested in other people's opinions on these issues.

Thanks in advance!

Niall

Not sure about student loan repayments but generally studentships range from £13,000K with no N.I. contributions (think you can opt to pay these yourself if you like) and it's tax free.

There are two types of JSA and if you want more advice the benefits agency should be able to advise. Why not give them a ring? I think you do have to have X amount of years N.I. contributions to get a state pension. It is a lot of years but I'm not sure how many - 30 or more I think. The Tax office will be able to advise. Why not give them a ring?

Employability is a risk and a lot will depend on the situation once you complete and things change with time and so it's really a chance you'd be taking.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

Hi Niall,

PhD studentships vary from about £10k to 15k now, but you may get 18k (probably via industry sponsorship), which is the equivalent of earning around £20k gross. This amount is non-taxable, and you don't pay NI nor student loans, but there is nothing stopping you from doing so. If you're out of work upon completing a PhD, you can claim benefits.

Putting aside the financial issues, if you're not interested in academia and you only think having a PhD will leave you competing with recent graduates...the question arises as to why you want to pursue one? It maybe more prudent to pursue a PhD on a part-time basis.

I should add it's unlikely you'll just have a three year break from industry, the time you complete, submit, find a job etc, you'll most likely be looking closer at four years.

Thanks for your responses...

My main reason for wanting to do a PhD is personal - I really enjoy learning, I love research, I get a real kick out of pushing myself and achieving something. I have considered an EngD but I prefer the (what appears to be) more theoretical basis of a PhD. I'm not saying I wouldn't consider a career in academia (I find the research very appealing) but I like working in industry and being involved in producing something that actually makes it to market.

I don't necessarily think I would be competing with recent grads - I have 4 years of industrial experience now - but I am also aware that it would effectively be a career break, which may put me at a disadvantage to my immediate peers.

I would consider one part-time but I don't think I have the time to do it justice and the work content of my day-job would not lend itself to PhD study..I think I'd be trying to complete a PhD for the better part of 10 years, during which time research would keep moving on, etc... - I'd never get there.

My main concerns are working out just how much money I'm likely to lose (both now and in terms of future promotions that I wouldn't get during my studies), and how well placed I'd be for employment upon completion.

I am considering also waiting until I feel I've achieved more in my currrent job, but I'm very aware that as I progress and my earnings increase, it will be harder and harder to leave it behind and accept a very substantial pay cut to do a PhD.

Oh well, such is life.... thanks again!

Hi Niall,

I've got to agree with missspacey on this one, it is a risk you'll be taking. I'm currently completing my Ph.D. and looking for jobs. I think it's going to be a couple of months (without stipend) before i'm employed again.

If your heart is really set on doing a Ph.D., don't let me put you off. Stipends are tax free and you can top it up with money from teaching, so it's pretty comfortable while you're there.

Just a thought, can you move sideways in the industry into something more research based - probably be more rewarding...

Niall

Couple of things to consider here.
As you already have a Masters, you already have enough quals to max out your earning potential.
Financially, an extra 3 or 4 yeasr experience are worth more than a PhD.

So don't do it for the money.

However, if you really want to do it for yourself then now is the time.
The amount of money your stipend (tax free) will give you, will not be a million miles away from what you are on now.
If you wait a few years. You will be on £35k + and most likely have a mortgage , car loans, kids etc etc etc etc.

Then you can forget about full time studying until you are an old fart (like me!).

Strange that you think a PhD Engineer should worry about Jobseekers allowance.
So long as you are willing to travel, you will have no problem finding work.

Don't worry about the state pension either.
By the time you come to retire it'll be worth three quarters of nothin !

You will not be up against recent graduates......you have 4 years experience.

You already have a Masters in Engineering.
Why not do an EngD ?
This would be industry based working on an actual research project.
Have a word and see if your employer would go for that.

Make sure you are speaking to the right people in the company and not just your line manager who probably has little interest in such things.
You may find that if you about it with determination they may be quite impressed and interested.
I say, go for it.

Cheers Angus!

I've already tried pushing people within my company for sponsorship / etc. ref getting a PhD - in the past it was not uncommon for PhD's to be done 'part-time' and paid for by the company.

Things are very different these days...

I've looked at the EngD - to be honest I'm being a bit of a snob about it - I think the PhD is more recognised and more theoretical, which appeals to me. But I don't really know how the EngD is viewed in terms of academic hierarchy or within industry. I wouldn't rule it out, I just think I'd prefer the 'original' PhD...

I can't decide if it is better to try and maximise my earnings now to build up a money buffer to sit and earn interest on while studying in a few years, or better to take a hit on promotions and study now, with no money behind me...

I also think it quite likely that within a few years my promotions will slow down as I start getting to the level where I am happy doing my day job, putting in more than enough hours but not putting in quite enough to drive through the next promotion, which would also involve more travelling and time away from home etc...

I am just now sorting out most of my loans & debts (except student loan) and am actually about to start saving money - but nothing like the amount I would need for a house... I would basically stop that dead while studying so put off any chance of a mortgage for yet a few more years.

Really appreciate your input though!

"build up a money buffer to sit and earn interest on while studying in a few years"

Interest.................wots that then :-(